I'm unable to start my new 87. It turns over fine but it has a very weak spark. This is a stock 87 HEI but it has the detached coil with the small distributor cap. I have replaced the complete distributor, coil, cap, and rotor with known good units but still no luck. The block has a good ground. If I pull the coil wire off the distributor I can get a small spark to the block but if I put a sparkplug in the wire and ground the plug I get no spark. I've pulled the ECM and tried it in my other Elky and it runs fine.

Anybody have any other ideas?

Several years ago, my HEI suddenly started producing a weak spark. Unlike your vehicle, which will not start, mine began to misfire under heavy acceleration. The only way I successfully got a strong spark back was to replace the HEI.

Have you considered swapping the unit out of your other 87 for testing purposes? Little time and elbow grease involved, but the price is right.

I took the HEI out of a TBI 350 that used to be in my 79 and put it in the 87. I'm positive this was a good distributor as the 350 ran fine before pulling it. The coil, cap, and rotor were also from the TBI 350. I'm going to give it another try today.

What is the switched voltage going to the HEI?


John 8)

What is the switched voltage going to the HEI?
It's 12.0V before I start to crank the starter.

Does the input voltage remain at 12.0 when the starter is engaged? If there is a significant voltage drop during operation of the starting motor, you may have a high resistance connection somewhere in the circuit. (Voltage may test OK at no load, but drop to inadequate levels with the starter engaged). To test it, try jumping straight from the positive battery post to the positive HEI terminal, then engage the starter.

I'm not having too much success at this problem. The PO said this used to be an intermittant problem and that they would tap on everything electrical under the hood until eventually they would get it to start again. I can just picture that. Now the problem is always present.

I'm in the process of rigging up an old one wire, non-computer HEI to try and get it running just so I can get it home and work at it here. I'm going back tomorrow AM and stab the distributor in. If this doesn't get it running I'll get the flatbed.

Make sure and double check your ground wires/straps. I had a Blazer that I put a new engine into along with a brand new distributer/coil, and would barely run. (very very little spark would show up at the coil/plugs) Turned out I didn't hook up the ground properly and fried the brand new coil!!

I know what you need, some spark plug wire cleaner http://www.kalecoauto.com/fluids.htm
:-P

I know what you need, some spark plug wire cleaner http://www.kalecoauto.com/fluids.htm
:-P

Don't go to that site! Once I was browsing for a minute or two I picked up a Trojan!

Ernie

I was rereading your post of June 8th and didn't see any resolution. Are you still down?

If not, what was the problem and are you going to any of the 3 car shows this weekend?

If yes, How can I help?

Mike

The new HEI didn't do the trick. I haven't gotten it going yet because priorities have changed (other family car problems). It's still sitting at my friends house in Alton. I'm planning on getting it (and the 85 parts Elky) with a flatbed this Saturday. Once it's home I'll work on the problem at my leisure.

I was originally going to take my El Camino to the Autos of the World Car Show at Goddard Park this Sunday but my son convinced me to go with him to the Super Chevy Show at NE Dragway instead. I'm not taking my Elky though.

Just wanted to report that when we went to pick up the new 87 with the ramp truck we decided to give it one more try at starting. Amazingly we got it to start on the first try. I'm not sure if it's a permanent fix though. I still have the old non-computer HEI in it. Maybe next weekend I'll put a computer controlled HEI back in it and continue troubleshooting.

But, for now it's at my house and I can at least drive it into the garage to work on it.

Good thing that it started up for your Ernie. And now, like you said, it is at least home and you can work on it in comfort. I'm sure you will get it resolved and it will be your reliable Elco again.

See you tomorrow at the Super Chevy show. 8)

Hello: On your no spark problem. Pull the set timing connector which takes the ECM out of control of generating spark. You will have no advance curve or anything like that but the engine should run. Also that dist produces what is called a REF or refference pulse. When in Bypass mode (set timing disconnected) the Ref pulse goes directly to the ign module in the dist, and the ign module makes the spark. This Ref pulse also will go to the ECM to tell the ECM when to fire the injectors. Again make sure batt is charged up good. It is not to difficult to bench test the dist either, it is much easier to play with it that way. If you need a drawing on how to do that let me know and will E mail it to you. You will need however a spare 4 pin plug for the Ign module that has at least 1 or 2 inches of wire so you can connect clips to the Ign module. The fact that you get any spark at all says the pick up assy is working and the Ign module is working somewhat. Make sure the coil is ok, and if you have a tach filter disconnect it while troubleshooting, these go bad from time to time
good luck
Darryl...

1978elky (Darryl). I like your suggestion and your insight. I never knew HEI's had that "SET TIMING" diagnostic ability.

Ernie,

I don't know if it applies to your situation, but an area that baffled me for a while in my 70's non-ECM HEI was a bad pickup coil (inside the distrib where the points used to go). Pickup coil tested okay when cold and the car would start and run when cold. But once the engine warmed a little it wouldn't restart due to loss of spark. Rather than spend lots more time diagnosing, I spent $30 each for a new module and a pickup coil at Auto Zone and then a half an hour on the work bench and that fixed it for good.

Since Ernie's ECM HEI car started cold at the last attempt (similar symptoms to mine), I thought I'd ditto Darryl's advice that the pickup coil is worth checking out.

Best wishes.
Mike

Thanks for the advice Darryl and Mike.

Several weeks ago, when I was trying to get it to start, I tried replacing several ignition components including a new detached HEI coil, three ECM controlled small cap HEI distributors, and one non-ECM controlled coil-in-cap HEI distributor, (the last swap being the non-ECM HEI). None of the distributors would fire a good enough spark to fire up the engine. Recently, when we tried starting it before putting it on the ramp truck, it fired right up with the non-ECM HEI on the first try. That was very strange because it wouldn't start with the non-ECM HEI several weeks before, and I almost killed the battery trying. So, I'm beginning to feel there may be an intermittant ground problem with the block.

Work is keeping me really busy and I've only been home on the weekends for the last few weeks. The next month will be much of the same so the distributor problem is going to be put on the back burner until I take some vacation time during the Labor Day week. I'll update on the progress then.

Ernie, How'd you make out, or are you still down 'till Labor Day? I'm in the neighborhood, so email me at home at mrsnunn@cox.net if you'd like some company while you're working on it.

Mike

Thanks Mike but my work schedule hasn't changed. Since my last post in this thread I've been working in St. Louis MO for a week and then Rochester NY for a week. I was working up in Clinton MA today and I'm going back to Rochester NY tomorrow. All next week I'm working in NH. Then a long deserved vacation during the Labor day week. The wife has a honey-do list for me while I'm on vacation and I'm going to try to sneak the ignition work in too.

Well, I'm happy to say that there has been some final resolution in my ignition problem.

I definitely have a short circuit somewhere in my wiring harness between the ECM and the distributor. How do I know that? The first indication was the small plume of white smoke coming from the wiring harness behind the distributor. This Elky has always had a history of intermittant ignition problems.

So, I ended up installing a practically new Summit aftermarket one wire HEI distributor that somebody had traded me for some Malibu parts a while back. It starts up just fine now. Of course, now the SES light is on. I've got to remove the SES bulb next. I've also got a Holley 4160 that I'm going to adapt to the q-jet intake to replace the E4ME q-jet carb. I'll hook up a pressure switch setup so I can still utilize the TCC lockup.

Then, as I went to drive it out of the garage the brake pedal went to the floor and the brake light came on. But, that's the next chapter in the story.

Ernie,

"Small puff of white smoke from behind the distributor", ehh?

Was that from one of your .45 automatic hollow-points ricocheting off the alternator? 8O

Glad it's up and running.

BTW, I'm selling my 6-Cyl automatic 87 Olds Cutlass daily driver. Last year I had U-haul bolt on a class 3 trailer receiver/hitch. Before I let the car go, are you interested in the hitch? I think it'll bolt to an 87 Elky.

Mike

Sounds like you solved another one Ernie. 8) Just in time to put the elco away for the winter???? Saw the first snow flakes of the season early this morning.

Before I let the car go, are you interested in the hitch? I think it'll bolt to an 87 Elky.
Thanks for the offer Mike, but my baby won't be hauling anything ever again. When I had the restoration done I removed the class 2 receiver hitch that was on it. Now I've got two class 2 hitches sitting around getting rusty.

Just in time to put the elco away for the winter????
I've got two 87's Jay. My nice 87, the one that I had restored and bring to shows, has been in the garage since the NH show. This ignition problem was in my other 87, the one that I traded an 83 Cutlass for a few months back. This one will never see the inside of my garage. It's destined to be a winter beater.