Several years ago I scanned my collection of 83-86 Choo Choo El Camino brochures and uploaded them to my Gallery pages (http://elcaminocentral.com/gallery.php/v/album02/album97/gallery.php?g2_itemId=44439) here at ECC to share with other members. Today I came across a web site that has copied all of my pictures and created a web page dedicated to the Choo Choo El Camino. What really ticks me off is that they have taken credit for all of the pictures and state that they are the property of their site! Here is a link to their site (http://www.80transampacecar.com/El%20Camino_New.htm).

I just sent the following to their "Contact us" page:

All of the Choo Choo Customs El Camino SS brochures that you have pictures of are my property. You copied them from my Galley pages at ElCaminoCentral.com where I am an administrator. I have all of these brochures in their original paper format. I scanned them and uploaded them to ElCaminocentral.com. I have compared the stains and scratches in your pictures to my brochures and there is no doubt that there are my pictures. I find it ironic that you use a pop up window to state that the images are the property of 80transampacecar.com. I am formally requesting that you remove these pictures from your site immediately.

I guess if they hadn't stated that the pictures were their property I wouldn't be so upset. What else can I do?

First off good on you for dropping them an email. You have to stand your ground. Does the site charge anything or make anything off of advertisement? If so you have a valid reason to ask them to remove the content.(Actually you have a valid reason none the less). I guess it's like borrowing the neighbors lawnmower without asking.....
Ugly Elco.

ernie maybe we need to sick the dog's on them stealing pics of elky's is worse than cattle russlin and we hang them in texas for that jim:texas:

thanks for calling them out on this, let us know how this goes please, and thanks again!

What really ticks me off is that they have taken credit for all of the pictures and state that they are the property of their site!

You were robbed - they lied - and know you are asking them to own up to it... if they are like any other common thief - your gonna either get the "dodge" or they are going to expand their lie.

You did good confronting them Ernie.

Keep us posted - its sure to be an interesting "story"

Progressive insurance used a pic of a Motorhome i had that burned--they used it 5 times in their ad's in a m/h magizine and i charged them 500 bucks--Photo copy infrindgment--they paid up too--Knew it was better to settle than go to court as i had the negatives --was about 10 to 12 years ago --glenn

I'm not a copywrite lawyer or have any special knowledge in the field, but it seems to me that if anyone has a complaint it would be Choo Choo, the brochures are/were produced by them as such they would seem to me the owner and the agreived party.



I just sent the following to their "Contact us" page:

All of the Choo Choo Customs El Camino SS brochures that you have pictures of are my property. You copied them from my Galley pages at ElCaminoCentral.com where I am an administrator. I have all of these brochures in their original paper format. I scanned them and uploaded them to ElCaminocentral.com. I have compared the stains and scratches in your pictures to my brochures and there is no doubt that there are my pictures. I find it ironic that you use a pop up window to state that the images are the property of 80transampacecar.com. I am formally requesting that you remove these pictures from your site immediately.

I e-mailed Kevin to night. Kevin is also a member of this site and the web master of www.80transampacecar.com He has created a section on his website just for Choo-Choo El-Camino's and IROC-S El-Camino's. He explained to me that he attempted to contact the person that posted the brochures but got no response. As stated in this website "credit is given to their respective owners" of material posted. I thought this was a hobby where everyone shares information for the good of all. I own original copies of 1983 thru 1986 sales brochures for Choo-Choo El-Camino's and catalogs # ELC396 & ELC49810M. He will remove the material from the website and re-post my brochures. Credit will be given to Choo-Choo Customs, General Motors, and Chevrolet. I know Kevin has responded to the e-mail sent to his site, I hope that gets posted.

I am a graphic artist. I work with a lot of digital images, information and other digital materials so I'm always studying up on copyright laws and such.

I'm sorry Ernie, I totally feel for you having your scans used without permission and the proper credits given(for scanning), but the reality is while you may have scanned them that does not make them your "property" as you do not own any rights to the original documents/created works that make up the brochures.

The physical printed hardcopies of the brochures that you own are your property, but again, any photos, information, etc. that they contain are like E-Man said, property of Choo-Choo Customs, General Motors and Chevrolet. And being so, technically either of those 3 copyright owners could take legal action against you for redistributing their copyrighted material. However, you could claim "fair use" but there are several factors to that.

As for the website stating that the scans are property of their site, yes, that is the issue here as they do not own any rights to the original documents either, regardless of who scanned them.

Just like scanning a photo out of a magazine, that does not give you any rights/ownership to that scanned photo...it is still property of the photographer, publisher, distributor...whoever holds the copyright.

Kevin has sent me an e-mail. He explained that he did try to contact me about using the scans. Either I never received them or they were deleted by my spam filter. If I had received an e-mail I probably would have said OK.

I consider the scans of the brochures to be my property, not the brochures themselves. I have owned the brochures for many years. As a result of ECC members asking questions about the Choo Choo El Camino I decided to take the time to scan them and upload them to ECC to be used as a reference. I don't mind if people copy them. What I do mind is other people taking credit for them. Since they were copied from ECC and used on another web site, at the very least ECC/NECOA should get credit for them. Kevin can do what he wants to with his site. Whoever he choses to credit for the scans is up to him. However, he shouldn't say they're his property.

Possesion is 9/10th of the problem.
J Lennon

All's well that ends well. No harm done, all forgiven. Thanks Ernie for posting the pictures and for the other website's information.

I used to be a mod on a tractor forum. What we did there was put a watermark on all the pics in the gallery so if anyone copied them it would have the forums logo in the lower right hand corner. We did it in our extensive library of manuals and sales fliers too.

This is what's on his website now:

Choo Choo Customs Dealer Brochures

Due to an complaint, the current brochures were removed.

They will be replaced and back online shortly, donated by "E-Man" (Gary J.) in which credit will be given to him for his generosity.

I also want to personally thank a few members from El Camino Central (you know who you are) for contacting me and giving me their support on this issue. Gentlemen, it is people like you who make the forums what they are today.

As with most feud’s/disagreements, both sides need to be heard, and that is the reason for my post. I feel that I was not given a chance to respond to his e-mail that he sent to my contact page, before I was chastised on ECC. So instead of responding right away to his post, I waited till now. I like to defuse the situation at the source and don’t like adding to an online feud.

I did write him for permission to post 3 times, in which I never received a response to any of them. Whether or not he got them, I have no clue, but there are a lot of variables these days on why a message/e-mail does not go through.

Since I never heard back from him, I just assumed it was okay. That was my call, yes it was a bad call, but it was mine and mine alone.

Below is my e-mail to him and ECC, but I never got one response back from him. Why he chose not to, only he knows. Why he only decided to post half of my response to the post, only he knows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------


I in no way, shape or form did I mean to upset you whatsoever. However, I did write you about posting your material on my website. In that e-mail, I mentioned that I would credit you for the Brochures. Out of the 3 e-mails that I sent well over 3 months back, I received to reply's back. I don’t know why I didn't receive a reply, maybe might want to check the spam filter.


If you will notice all through my website, I have the appropriate owners credited to the material I posted. And if you did read my banner, you would have noticed that the banner reads "and/or their respective owners" and not just my site "www.80TransAmPaceCar.com (http://elcaminocentral.com/www.80TransAmPaceCar.com). All I had was an e-mail and didn't know who to give credit to.


I will go ahead and give you credit and El Camino Central, in which I am a member of, for the material posted on my website.


Would that be sufficient?


Thanks
Kevin

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is my second letter to him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------



Since I am a member of El Camino Central, I do read what you and other members post. I was in no way trying to harm your or El Camino Central.

Referring to the post about your "Stolen Choo Choo" Pictures.


I have responded to your e-mail and made contact.


I already told you that I would gladly give you and El Camino Central credit and that should be sufficient.


Thanks
Kevin

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Since I did not get a reply to either of my e-mail’s I went ahead and took them off my site to diffuse the situation.

I am not a thief, if you notice on my website; credit is always given to the appropriate people to whom my information is received from.

Yes, I mark them with my website name, which does not mean I own them. I mark them at the request of the owners of the information. The owners and I decided to do that so we can tell where they came from if they were found on another website. In which it does not matter if they are linked to another website or found on a different website period, as they are marked where they come from.

I’m not sure what else I can do at this moment; I already apologized for my decision.

1) Either my apology can be accepted and we can go on.
2) Or you can choose to not accept my apology, and the only thing I can say to that is that I did my part.

Thanks
Kevin

Blah, blah, blah...

What are you trying to prove?

End of story.

Thread closed.