Im looking for a quick ratio steering box that will take the excessive wheel turning out of my 64 Camino. I would prefer to salvage something from a junker, but dont know what types of chevys came equipped with these boxes (if any). Its a stock 64 front end, which i plan on converting over to Tall Spindles (as soon as i can afford the whopping price of UCA's). Thanks for any help that you can give me.

I don't see why a 82-89 Camino or MC SS etc. would fit. You would need to use your pitnum arm.

Okay, so you want to used a quick ratio box on your 1964 El Camino, this can be accomplished pretty simply, but there are a few things that you have to keep in mind to make this swap go as smoothly as possible.

First, you’re car originally had a steering box with an output shaft travel of 43° 30mins so, ideally you want the new steering box to have about this same amount of output shaft travel. Secondly, in order to use any power steering box, you’ll need a pitman arm for a 1964-1967 GM-A body with power steering, a 64-67 manual steering pitman arm won’t work. This isn’t a big deal; you can get a new pitman arm at most auto parts stores. Third and finally most later model power steering boxes require around 1300psi of power steering pump pressure when the wheel turned to full lock. If the required pressure isn’t present (i.e. the pump doesn’t supply enough, you will feel a skip or lack of power steering when turning the wheel in a parking or maneuvering situation where you would typically be turning the wheel to a full lock.

I assume when you are referring a 12.7:1 quick ratio steering box when you are referring to quick ratio. This is the quickest ratio that the venerable Saginaw box came in.

Now, starting with the 1980 model year, GM switched over the metric O-ring style power steering hose fittings. This is not a big deal, one call to Lee Manufacturing ((818)768-0371 (talk to Tom Lee or his wife, they are very knowledgeable and can help with other steering questions as well) will land you the adapters for about $14.00 shipped to your door (You won't even see them once installed, very very trick). All this is provided you currently have power steering and want to reuse the original SAE flared seat hoses. If you are going to use a later model pump, then you can just use the metric O-ring style hoses and not have to deal with the adaptors.

Now, also starting about this time (1977 or so), GM switched to a 3/4" (O.D.) input shaft. Your 1964 has a 13/16" (O.D.) input shaft. This paper http://www.corvettefaq.com/acar/A-CarFastRatioGear10JN2002.doc, written by the very knowledgeable Jim Shea (retired from Saginaw Gear), nicely details the specifics of the older (’64-’67 Chevelle/El Camino) steering column and the modifications required to make the new quick ratio box work. Don’t worry, it’s nothing impossible.

Okay, now down to the dirty, since you are looking for a quick ratio (I’m presuming 12.7:1) steering box, you will need to find one with approximately the same amount of output shaft travel as your original box had (around 40° to 43°). To confuse matters even worse, GM did not use any type of external identifiers other than either a sticker or a grease stamping of a 2 character alpha code. As you can imagine, lots of times the sticker is missing, painted over or the grease stamping is worn and illegible or worn completely. Regardless if you are looking for this, it will either be on the aluminum top cover or front cover.

The cars you will be looking for are:
1985-1988 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS – Stamped “YA” – 39° 15mins
1988-1996 Chevrolet Caprice/Impala SS – Stamped one of the following codes – “CP, CT, DU, FB, HL, KW, MX, TW, or WZ” – Most likely you’ll find these quick ratio (12.7:1) boxes on a police optioned car (RPO 9C1) or an Impala SS) The RPO codes F41, FE, FE1, or FE2 may also yield a 12.7:1 steering box.
1994-1995 Buick “full size” – Stamped one of the following codes – “FK, KL”
1992-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee – Any steering box from these years Jeep Grand Cherokee will be a quick ratio (12.7:1) power steering box that will bolt right into you’re car.

While the steering box from a Camaro may sound lucrative, they do not have the output shaft travel as your car does originally; their output shaft travel is typically around 32° to 35°. This will increase you’re turning radius and make the car harder to maneuver in general. I would shy away from the use of a Camaro box for this reason and that they will not be any cheaper or easier to locate than one of the boxes I provided above. Out of the above mentioned boxes, I would choose either the Caprice (or full sized Buick) or Jeep Grand Cherokee boxes because their output shaft travel is around 40° to 43°. The Monte Carlo SS box is a good box, but they are fairly hard to find, at least in this neck of the woods and it still doesn’t have the output shaft travel that your original box had. If you were to find one you would probably have to pay a premium price because it came from a Monte SS (much like IROC or GTA boxes command). The Camaro boxes work very nicely on the later model El Camino’s (1978-1988) because of their redesign at this time).

Finally, you will notice that some of these power steering boxes may have four mounting bosses while others may only have three. This does not matter to you since your car only uses three. The four mounting bosses were used in vehicles such as Jeep CJ’s.



On the subject of control arms, there are several choices out there now and you are no longer forced to pay the premiums that you used to from certain big name manufactures. Check ebay, there are a few small manufactures selling them on there. Also, tall spindles can be done while retaining the stock control arms. If you do a search on the 'net you should yeild a few results detailing it.

Good Luck

Now that is a detailed answer! :-)

Wow, that was way more detailed a message than i could have ever imagined, thanks for the input

I have a 1979 El Camino and I am wondering if I already have a quick ratio steering box (I just bougt the car and it is obvious that former owner(s) made many modificatons). It takes about 2 2/3 turns lock to lock. Yesterday I was dring on a back road and I came acroos a stripped 80's SS Monte Carlo. I went over the carcass and saw that the steering system was still installed. I determined that the steering wheel would turn lock to lock 2 1/2 turns just slightly faster than what I had. What is the lock to lock turns on a 1979 El Camino and did they have an optional steering box? Should I go back and snatch that steering box even though it is pretty grungy?

I have a 78 and my wheel turns 3.25 lock to lock I think. It depends on wher I start to turn it though. Im measuring from the wheel being straight,so I could be doing it wrong.. :roll:

Turn the steering wheel to either left or right (engine idling but do not hold the steering against the stop too long as this could build up too much pressure) and turn the wheel to the opposite lock and count how many times the wheel goes around. I believe this is the proper way to check steering ratio.

Ok,Ill try that method,Been thinking about picking up a quick box from OPGI

You can not tell what the ratio in the steering box is by merely turning the steering wheel. I forget why, but I know that this is not accurate. Here is a link to a website for determining what the ratio in the box is, if you don't have any external stamping left - http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/camaro_steering.htm#Steering%20box%20and%20ratio%2 0info

The stock steering box ratio for a 1979 El Camino not have been 12.7:1, it was probably 14:1 box or a variable ratio box.

Thanks for the heads up on that website which gave a lot of info on steering ratios. It takes some investigation to determine overall steering ratio but it does confirm what I thought--a steering system with less lock to lock turns is a higher ratio than a steering box with more lock to lock turns.

The size of your steering wheel makes a difference to. My 78 seems to turn as quick as the 85 MC SS I had. The MC had a stock size wheel & my Elky does a small aftermarket one. Or was it just in my head. :cool:

No the steering wheel diameter doesn't make a difference in the number of turns lock to lock, it would only make a difference in the steering effort, big wheels require less effort.

Ok, so I lucked into the steering box out of an '86 IROC. I also have the lower part of the IROC steering linkage with the 7-layer rag joint. When I put this into my '78 El Camino, should I change the PS pump, too? I see that I can get adapters for the o-ring to flare issue, but does my '78 pump develop sufficient pressure to effectively run the IROC box? Will the F-body PS pump fit my '78 PS pump brackets? I believe that I should re-use the Pitman arm from my '78 setup as well.

Am I on the right track here?

Should you find yourself with a Camaro box or some other variant with less lock to lock travel...

And you are mechanically inclined...

It is possible to convert the box to A-car specs. First the easy part is swapping the end caps from your old box to the new box (presuming you already had power steering). This is actually pretty simple as there is a snap ring in the end hold the end cap in. Run a punch through the hole drilled in the outside of the steering box to push the snap ring out.

The other steering stop is a bit more challenging as it is way up inside the gearbox. You will have to remove the pinion and shaft as well as the steering rack. This means the 20 little balls will probably come falling out and you will have to put them back in later. But once those parts are out you can pry the snap ring steering stop out of the inside of the steering box. When you go to put the balls back in note that there are actually 10 big balls and 10 small balls and they need to be put in in alternating order. And the difference between big and small in this case is about .0005". You probably cannot measure the difference but you can feel it as some will "pop" as you pull them through and some will just slide right on through the callipers.

Lots of fun but not for the faint of heart.

I have a 76, an I am interested in doing this very thing. http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&catalogIdentifier=Jegs_Direct&categoryId=97311&parentCategoryId=11927 Would this product work with my Elk? I am also interested in a high-performance pump that same company makes.

a steering system with less lock to lock turns is a higher ratio than a steering box with more lock to lock turns.This is only true if the output-shaft/pitman-arm goes through the same arc. If the arc is shorter, then the same ratio will give fewer turns lock-to-lock.