Several days ago I started repairing all the non-working items on my 81 ELKY. First off, I wired in a horn button wrong, wired to positive instead of ground. Found problem...horn works. Next, I pulled steering wheel and replaced the blinker assembly and ran new harness down the column....blinkers work. While I was there, I found and repaired the broken horn pig tail wire and horn works correctly at steering wheel. Removed auxillary horn button. Next...Followed step by step Electrical Sticky - No High-Blower operation, G-Body - replacing connector and blower motor...All blower speeds now work. Then........as dark set upon me and my arm ached from patting myself on my back....I walked away leaving the ignition on all night. Today, I have a stone dead battery. I put my portable booster on the battery, started the engine....all is good...I think. Blew the horn and the CTSY fuse blew. Step by step I undid all the things I had previous repaired trying the horn each time and nothing changes, still blows the fuse. I even bought a new horn relay...no help! I would appreciate any help....:dontknow:.....Jim

Did you wire the horn into the courtesy light circuit?

Correct....Horn is wired into the ctsy light circuit as it comes from the factory bone stock. Black wire all the way as shown on schematic.

OK...I reconnected blower motor and blinkers (different circuit) which had no effect on problem. Everything still works good there. On the same circuit, the Key in Buzzer & Interior Lights all work correctly when reconnected. Horn still blows fuse.


ANYONE ?????? :???::dontknow::screwy::frown2::confused2::?::feed back:

Sounds like you have a short in the wiring to the horn. Remove the plug on each horn and check for continuity to ground with a DVOM.

No continuity from horn plug to ground.........I would agree that it appears to be a short....I guess it would be on the other side of the relay????? What do you think?

At the horn button, (black wire) I've got voltage with the fuse in and continuity to ground with the fuse pulled. That, as I understand it, means short to ground between the horn button and the horn relay. That is, if the horn relay is normally open. Is this correct?

Yeah could be. Does it blow the fuse with the courtesy lights off? You do have a good 20 amp fuse in there right? A name brand like Buss not some harbor freight crap?

Blows fuse with Ctsy lights on or off. I've blown an even dozen today, all Buss. The horn never actually blows anymore, I just get a click at the relay and then the fuse blows. BTW, new relay, just for S&G's.

Can you run a jumper wire from the horn button to the relay and disconnect the wire that's there now? Just a temporary thing nothing fancy to see if works.

That'll take some doing, the relay is above the light switch under the dash. I can see and get to the relay but will take some time to get behind it. I've lost my light for today, so it'll be after church tomorrow b4 I can jump back into it. Question...The black wire goes from the horn button down the column to behind the radio and then reappears on the far left side of the dash at the relay. The schematic doesn't show anything else in that route. Do you know what's going on back there?

Maybe a previous owner mistakenly used that black wire for a ground in the area you can't see?

Maybe a previous owner mistakenly used that black wire for a ground in the area you can't see?

Maybe....it wouldn't surprise me. Nothing worked when I got the car but some of the lights and one blower speed. The column was out of a 79. It was originally a gauge car with an idiot dash pod and idiot senders installed. The column is wired correctly now. I've got the correct senders and have a white faced, red needled gauge pod with 120mph speedo. All the vaccum lines are cut, plugged or routed wrong. I'm not looking forward to that part. Actually, I haven't seen anything cut under the dash. Lots of stuff just hanging. Empty plugs here and there....lots of work.

The wire from the Fuse (20amp) is Orange, (constant 12v) to the center of relay. The Black Wire to the Horn Switch is the switching wire. When it goes to Ground, (depressing Horn Button) it switches the Relay, Powering up the Green Wire, the Green wire then has the 12 volts to the Horn, and with the Horn being grounded, it should blow.
Now, if you take the black wire, prior to it going up into the steering column, and isolate it (disconnect it) then ground the end from the relay, the horn should blow. If it does, the problem is in the column or horn button assembly. If it does not blow, the problem is with the Relay or Horn. Now to determine which, take a jumper from the + side of the Bat, unplug a wire from a horn, touch the jumper to that terminal on the horn, the horn will blow if it is good. That would point you to a probable bad relay.
Now all this you are most likely aware of, I know. But what has to be done here is to isolate where the malfunction is, then your search is narrowed down.
Now if someone tied into that black wire from the relay to the horn button thinking it was a ground wire, they would most likely fry whatever it is they hooked to it, as they would be feeding power to the ground side of whatever they hooked to it.
All the above is just FOOD for thought, on the slight chance you over looked something.
Good luck ~~ cuz what do I know? :beer:
I also want to stress ~~~ Your in GOOD hands with Bobby78, and my Rant is in no way a reflection to his inability to assist you. ON THE CONTRARY http://www.elcaminocentral.com/images/icons/icon15.gif

At the horn button, (black wire) I've got voltage with the fuse in and continuity to ground with the fuse pulled. That, as I understand it, means short to ground between the horn button and the horn relay.


im thinkin you found one problem...strange?

That is, if the horn relay is normally open. Is this correct?


the (green?) wire to the horn is the n.o. side...

good luck...:texas:

I agree with the diagnosis down to here:

Now if someone tied into that black wire from the relay to the horn button thinking it was a ground wire, they would most likely fry whatever it is they hooked to it, as they would be feeding power to the ground side of whatever they hooked to it.
All the above is just FOOD for thought, on the slight chance you over looked something.

The wire going from the horn button to the relay is ground only and only when the contact is pushed.
If they connected something else that required 12 volts to it - it just would'nt work. If the wire going up the column was shorted to ground it would want to blow the horn all the time.
Just my take on the topic. HTH

Now that I've had some sleep, perhaps I can look at this more clearly, then again.......:confused2:
Going back to square one.....after I repaired the horn button in the column, it worked fine....it was only after moving the hanging wiring harness back out of the way and reassembling the column did it fail to work and started blowing the fuse. As I isolated my previous work step by step, including completely removing the blinker assembly and horn button, nothing changed. Fuse still blows. Bearing that in mind and after taking voltage measurements, it would appear to me that the problem must be that the black wire is compromised. :dontknow: If I might re-ask a previous question...Where does that black wire physically go? It leaves the horn button, down the column, goes right toward the radio and ends up above the light switch at the horn relay on the left side of the dash. Is that right?
Guys....I really appreciate all this feedback!

Correct !
The BLACK WIRE is a stand alone wire, two connections, one end to Horn button, the other to Relay.

Now, if you take the black wire, prior to it going up into the steering column, and isolate it (disconnect it) then ground the end from the relay, the horn should blow. If it does, the problem is in the column or horn button assembly. If it does not blow, the problem is with the Relay or Horn. Now to determine which, take a jumper from the + side of the Bat, unplug a wire from a horn, touch the jumper to that terminal on the horn, the horn will blow if it is good. That would point you to a probable bad relay.
Now all this you are most likely aware of, I know. But what has to be done here is to isolate where the malfunction is, then your search is narrowed down.

I was so convinced the problem was in the black wire because I was not digesting what I was seeing & reading. I went back and read all these posts again....What am I missing? You know, I never jumped the horns after the problem rose it's ugly head. I put in new Buss fuses, new relay, new blinkers assembly & wiring harness, nothing obvious in the wiring, all checked out the way it was supposed to....but I didn't recheck the horns because they blew good in the beginning before the fuses started blowing.


Quess what.....2 dead horns......:nanawrench: :beer: :You_Rock:

Wow!.........Thank You, Thank You, Thank You

Glad you finally got it. I know you will miss crawling around the floor board to get your head under the dash.

Hay~What do I know ? :dontknow:
Another LUCKY guess.

Glad you located it, Electrical can be such a Pain most of the time, cuz Ohms Law ~ Well it's law that seems to not make sense to most.:poke:
:nanawrench:
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Glad you finally got it. I know you will miss crawling around the floor board to get your head under the dash.


Don't think for one minute I'm going to give up that "dirt in the hair look!" I've still got to straighten out all the vacuum, the gauge switch-over, new shocks, get the radio & speakers working and the .........................................., not to mention the..................

Just enjoy it while you can! Think how bored you'll be when its all finished!:nanawrench:

Just enjoy it while you can! Think how bored you'll be when its all finished!:nanawrench:
That'll never happen! I've been working on something all my life. I might get pass this one but there will be another that I will "Have to Have!" Sure do like 59's & 70's. I've had several Gen 3's. However, today is a glorious day. Everything is back together and works as it should. Replaced 4 light bulbs and now it will pass State Inspection. No more Antique Plates....Too many restrictions.....

Did I say how much I appreciate everyone's input???:nana2::biggrin2::banana::cool1::rose: