This is my second EC and I am new to the site. Glad I found it! I want to try to put together my '79 EC for the 2005 Grassroots Racing $2005 Challenge. This is a race, held once a year in Florida, that combines drag racing, auto crossing and a car show to gain points. The top points car is the winner. The catch is receipts have to prove that you stay within the $2005 budget limit. My EC originally came (has) a locked up 267 v8, that I purchased for $375. I located a '92 model TBI 350 for cheap that is tested and runs good. Guy checked compression and motor is said to be 115+ in all cylinders. Is that ok? On to my question: I have read the various threads about G body cars with F/R sway bars, quicker ratio steering boxes, graphite bushings and various support braces. The truck came with a set of '79-80 steel 15x7 Z-28 rims. To improve my rear gear, will the complete rear end assembly from a MC SS drop in? What do you guys reccommend to put together a good performing suspension cheap, and improve my rear gear? I would love to show up and woop up on some imports!
thanks

Just my opinion but I think you picked the wrong vehicle. A 1979 El Camino can be made to handle well but it always has an inherent disadvantage because of the weight bias. If you must, a wrecking yard will have to be your primary source of go fast parts. You need a much lower rear end ratio than what you have and a locking rear end too. Any G-Body GM (1978-1987 Chevelle, Buick GN, Olds Cutlas etc is a parts source for rear ends and front/rear swaybars. Poly bushings will tighten up your suspension, the cheapest I ever found were at Speedway Motors (on the Internet).
You need sticky tires try searching the Internet for "used racing tires". Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Grab some factory Monte SS sway bars and frame braces ('84-'87), change to polyurethane suspension bushings, and install some KYB shocks. These can all be had for very reasonable prices, and offer a HUGE improvment in handling!

Chvypwr has the right idea. Those are the basics, you can do more later as funds come avalible.

If you read his post carefully you will see that he is entering the Grassroots Challenge, he ain't got time for the basics now and furthur improvements later, everything has to be done right now. Unless he is really skilled it's going to be really hard to get that TBI installed within budget. I think he should get as low a rear end as possible. It would probably be more effective and cheaper to get a new 4.10 gear set (with spacer). A locking diff would be good but probably out of budget. Front and rear sway bars from a wrecking yard, poly bushings, homemade front fender braces, used sticky tires and as much camber as you can get in the front suspension should take care of the handling. I've read about these Grassroots Challenges for the last couple of years and I still think that a 1979 El Camino, as much as I love 'em, is not gonna have much of a chance.

to date, I have scored front/rear sway bars, front frame braces, steering box and can get the rear out of an '85 MC SS for cheap. I also scored an "X" brace for the radiator core support from a Buick Regal. After further research on the TBI I have decided to swith to a 4bbl carb. The engine I have is from an '87 truck and is complete with a/c comp/starter/alt etc for $500. I also found a set of 225/60-15 Firehawks for about $150. They should look nice on the repainted 5 spokes. My question: are the front brakes on the '85 SS bigger/better than what I currently have? I can get them too, but want to make sure before buying. I have looked all over the net and not found any real info that tells me they are bigger. I know the upper/lower control arms changed around '81 or so. Would these need to be changed as well if I did the brakes? I would assume the spindle made a change as well. This is the last of the major items I was looking for. So far total expense is around $1100. I may just make it.
I know an El Camino is not the best autocross vehicle around, but I want to do something that is different. Sure I could get an old CRX, MR2 or something, but I like American iron and one that is versatile. I may not win the thing but I want to make sure I don't come in last and whip up on some imports when possible! Beside, autocrossing is only 1/3 of the competition.
Thanks for all the help and support, is there anyone else out there that might have an interest in doing this too?

Looks like you're doing really well. All of the 1978-1987 A/G bodies had the same brakes. At best they're marginal especially for what you need. High performance pads/shoes and maybe drilled/slotted front rotors are the only cheap improvements you can make. I installed braided flexible brake lines, they improve the "feel" of the brakes but don't cause better stopping. To get larger front discs is involved and expensive.

I think you have made the right choice. My '84 has eaten its fair share of sports cars in the past. The weight distribution is not as bad as most people think, although it can get a little loose in the rear. Sway bars are a must. The salvage yard is a great place to look for sway bars and bracing. If you can squeeze it in to your budget, I would look into a spring package. I have had good luck with Eibach. They can be had for around $250. They will lower the car 1 inch and help with body roll. Also, I put a set of front shocks off of an s-10 blazer 4x4 on my old '81. The shocks will bolt right in and have a bigger bore with stiffer valving. Worked great. Even a low cost set would be good. I used some Monroe Reflex shocks. The springs and shocks both will help with nose dive into corners. If you can weld up the lower rear control arms to box them in, it would be a plus. This can help to plant the rear on the strip and when coming out of turns on the road course. As far as the brakes, I have been using carbon metallic pads and shoes with stock rotors and drums. The shoes had to be custom made. I also use high pressure lines. My fronts are braided steel, but I have heard that to much heat could cause brake fade. So far I haven't noticed it. This set up seems to work pretty good. A vast improvement over stock. This would save you some time and money. I hope you have fun kicking around some imports.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of shocks. I have read on numerous sites that say the KYB gas shocks are really good. Would you think that the S-10 shocks would be as good for less $$? I am currently taking a community offered course in welding! A total of 12 hours. Just enough to make me dangerous with fire and flamable gases!! I hope to be able to box up my rear control arms for cheap and make some additional bracing to tie the ends of the frame together. The price of the eibach's is a bit much for my budget. Would the MC SS springs be any advantage/disadvantage to me?
Thanks guys!!

I don't know if the shocks would be as good or not. My neighbor has the KYBs on a GTO and loves them. I do know that they helped my '81 greatly and they cost less. I'm running the Belltech Nitro Actives on my '84, but the cost might be more than your willing to spend. Also, if you go too stiff it is going to hurt you at the strip. With the Belltechs, my friends say that I don't get much weight transfer. The S-10 shocks would be a good in-between. Are you aloud to add ballast for the strip and take it out for the road course? As far as springs go, I'm not sure if the MC springs are any different. I know that the G-bodies used a lot of the same parts, but being an SS they could have a stiffer spring rate. Have you thought about cutting your current springs. If you cut a 1/2 coil it should lower the car about 1". This would help lower your center of gravity and cutting the spring would increase the spring rate. If your springs are original, it might drop it more. I cut a fairly new set by 3/4 of a coil and it dropped the car 1 1/4". On the rear, you can do the same, but would need a cargo coil for the obvious reason the you can't cut an eliptical spring and it still fit like it should.

The S-10 shocks sound like the way to go. I found a pair of the Grand Prix fender to core support braces for $6 a pair. But, I also found front sway bar (36 mm I think, and steering box from a late 80's IROC Camaro. You think the IROC bar is TO big? 8O

No, the larger front hollow sway bar out of the IROC is a very good choice. Also if the Grand Prix has the bar that goes from frame to frame and bolts to the jounce bars frame points, get it and install that also.

[quote]"Also if the Grand Prix has the bar that goes from frame to frame and bolts to the jounce bars frame points, get it and install that also."[quote]

I am not familiar with this part. What/where are the "jounce bars frame points"? It it is out there, I am sure I can find it. I found about a dozen GP's of this vintage.

On a different note, I noticed on the inside trunk lid of the MCSS a list of all the option codes for the car. Do all the other GM cars (Grand Prix, Cutlass, Regal, El Camino) have similar lists? If so, where are they? I did not notice any informantion under the decklids or in glove boxes like the MCSS had.

I am getting really excited about the project! I feared having some problems finding performance parts and keeping it all in budget. So far so good. While I was at it, I scored some other parts off of the SS and will get some off of the IROC to sell and help offset some of the espenses for the EC project and keep it under the required budget.

I really love to follow grassroots motorsport's challenges. From what I've seen of past front runners, an essential ingredient is crew. Recruit a few knowledgeable friends and get them fired up. It will do a lot for the project and cost nothing (except maybe a couple six-packs) :cool:

If you can find the F-41 steering box front/rear swaybars it is worth it, I love my F-41. KYB gas Adjust shocks are nice if you can afford them. The stocl rear air Shocks are nice, pump them up to 40-50 psi and they are rock solid. I have global west del-a-lum bushings on mine, a bit pricey but they really work. I would imagine polygraphite or something like that would work well.

When you say frame to frame bars, are you talking about the bars that run under the front sway bar, or the bar that connects the frame ends together? I have run both. I did, however, have a problem with running the strut bars ( as Lauren Engineering calls them ) under a larger sway bar. They hit my 1 1/4" and caused the front end to raise about 1/2". If you run them with a stock bar they fit just fine. Also, the fender to core support bars don't seem to help much in the cornering department, but they look cool and have kept my fenders from shaking with all the trimming work I have done.

The stock or aftermarket air over shocks are not a viable performance handling option. Their primary function is to increase the rear suspension load carrying capacity. Additionally if the air lines to the two shocks are interconnected, during a turn the shock on the inside compresses and increases the air pressure on the unloaded inside shock; this upsets the handling. Use gas assist performance shocks for handling and Air Lift bags to increase the load capacity.

As much as I like my '79-80 Z-28 rims, I can use more wheel. What about a set of 15x8 Corvette rally wheels (without the trim rings and caps of course!). With these wheels, is the 8" ok in front? What do you think max tire size would be for front/rear? I want to keep the tires under the sheetmetal without rubbing problems. Is there anyone out there with this combination?

Previous to my 17" wheels I had the setup you are thinking about. There are some clearance problems (minor rubbing) on both the front and rear. It depends a lot on tire size, I think I had 235/60 on the front and 255/60 on the rear.

Yesterday a friend help me to get the '85 MC SS home. I pulled it in the salvage yard several days ago and had to "stash it" until I could figure out how to get it home. (Ialso drive an Altima and Mustang). I was looking for a way to roll it to the front of the yard and there it was. A lonely '76 Monte Carlo with a couple of 15x7 rally wheels w/Goodyear Eagle ST rwl tires. I pulled them off the car and put on the rearend to roll. Ended up giving $80 for the rear (including core), $15 ea for the tires and $3 ea for the rallys! It is now home. The rear has 3.73 gears, yeah! A couple of days ago I pulled an IROC steering box and found a 36mm sway bar on a Firebird. Like Mikey on "American Chopper" says, "I love it when a plan comes together!" Anyway, I think I have just about all the main pieces I have been searching for. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for all the advice and assistance!

I can see where my previous post is confusing. I am refering to the MC SS rearend not the whole car. Sorry.

Sounds like some good deals. On my lowered Elky, I run 225-60s & 245-60s on 7in & 8in Keystones.

Tommy, I checked out your "gallery". Your EC is a beaut! I wish I could squeeze those looks into my $2K budget!! Maybe from 30 feet at sunset. It is something to strive for. Looks like the 225/245 combo would be just about right. Maybe cut 1/2 a coil off the front to lower it just a tad. I hope to start cleaning the rearend within the next week and getting the motor I bought home by this time next week and I can start taking it apart to detail it and make it look pretty. I'll keep you guys on the post up to speed and again, thanks for all the input!

Where-abouts is this race in FLA?
May have to come watch!

It is in Gainesville, Fla. Check out this site: http://www.grmotorsports.com/challenge.php
for this years info, pics and results. I definately have my work cut out for me!!!

SWEET!
I'm like 45 min away!

If i come i might see ya there!

It's all coming together. I found a pair of 15x8 Corvette rally wheels on ebay. They should be arriving any time now. (I love seeing that big brown truck come down my street!) I have a question about the front sway bar... I have a solid 32mm, a hollow 34mm and hollow 36mm bar to choose from. I have heard that bigger is not always, given the following info, which do you guys think would be the best choice?

I will be using stock front springs with approx. 1/2-3/4 of a coil cut off. I have the "jounce" bars from a Regal, Cutlass core support "x" brace, Grand Prix fender to core support bars, MCSS 22mm rear bar, and will be making braces that tie the front frame ends together and one for the rear as well, and boxing the rear upper/lower control arms. As mentioned before, will have 15x8 rallys w/245/60-15 on the rear and 15x7 rallys w/225/60-15 on the front. Also scored the steering box from a late 80's IROC.

Still not sure of the shocks to use (I can get Monroes at a discount, anyone suggest any shocks from the Monroe line?), and am considering keeping the stock rear springs (unless someone has a better (ie. cheap) idea for that). Maybe a good shock and "air bags" I have read a lot about on this thread. Sorry to ramble, I am starting to get excited about this!