I want to eventually convert my elky to 134a. the car doesn't run so i cant dispose of r12 if so how???? I am just wondering if anyone has decent knowledge of r12 or if they can figure out a way w/out draining my system. i know i have to drain compressor oil. ok. That is it. LOL. I saw the classic auto air kit. and their guide to conversion. what do i have to do with the r12 though? do i have to do anything with it or just charge it with r134 after installing these parts????:dontknow:

Are you sure there is R12 left in the system?
If so, your only legal alternative is to pay someone to come to you and recover it. It all has to come out to work on the system.
If there is less than about 40psi in the system, it's technically empty. No one would really complain if you cracked a fitting and walked away for a couple of minutes. There's a good possibility that there is nothing at all in your system if it hasn't been used in a few years. If so, recovering the R12 is a non-issue.

The POA system in your car will convert pretty well if you are thorough and don't cut corners. Adjusting the POA valve is the key to a successful conversion on that system. The Classic article covers it well, but doesn't go into detail about "how to" do things like flushing, looking for internal corrosion, etc.

One thing they don't mention is resealing the compressor. The ceramic shaft seals in your A6 compressor are notorious leakers and can usually be replaced with a modern double lipped neoprene seal. Replacing the entire compressor with a new (not reman) unit is also be a good idea if you can spend the $$$.

If you are going to do it yourself, there are a few tools that you MUST have access to:
-Manifold gauge set
-Electric vacuum pump (air operated pumps are nor suitable for AC work)
-A large supply of DRY and FILTERED compressed air. This is the toughest one because small home compressors don't provide enough volume for flushing properly and tend to generate lots of moisture.
If you don't have access to these 3 things, you cannot do the job yourself. You could remove the parts and have them all flushed, do all of the assembly yourself, then have the system evacuated and charged though.

If you are unfamiliar with AC repair, I suggest you go to www.autoacforum.com and spend some time there. It's a great site for automotive AC and is geared toward DIYers. Do a search for "POA valve", "A6 compressor" and "R134a conversion" for more than you ever wanted to know about the AC system in your Elky.

Good Luck

Isrx101, thanks for that info ( from me too!)

I hope to convert mine also, and use a new light weight compressor, like a Sanden, new hoses etc. The parts near the AC box on the firewall are a mystery to me. It's '77 parts- the dryer ? the '75 parts are different (?)
I have nitrogen to flush/blow out the parts. Maybe flush the parts out, and then having a local service place make hoses to fit, and service it (?)

73-77 used a VIR system.(Valves In Receiver). The POA, TXV and receiver/dryer are all in one unit. Those usually aren't good candidates for conversion because the POA can't be adjusted to work well wit R134a.
It will work "ok" if you convert it, but that is one that will not get as cold as with R12. I think there are kits to eliminate the VIR assembly, but I'd have to check. Personally, I would stay with r12 in that system.

Classic auto air sells conversions called Engine compartment upgrade kits. These kits come with the hoses. you route them as you see fit and then cut them and they will pay shipping back to them they will crimp them if you can't do it and they will do it for you and ship it back to you for free. It comes with compressor condenser and your poa valve they will take and they will sell you theirs for like 150 bucks and i think 40 of it will be refundable when they receive your old POA valve. the kit includes everything your engine compartment needs. I called them today because i don't need there whole system. the kit runs around 700 bucks minus the poa witch for the price aint bad considering the whole system they sell runs for 1250. LOL. And easier refridgerant to find and handle. so i am going to end up doing that. When i called their number the customer support was impressive i couldn't stump him when i asked all the questions. he said he litterally had everything in the engine compartment taken care of. he has it all. he said. I highly suggest them. because of the experiance i have had with them. hope this helps.

That's a nice kit. Did he mention what type of condenser it uses?
It looks like a piccolo style, which would be a bit more efficient with R134a. However, it could also be a parallel flow type, which would be even better for R134a. It's hard to tell by the picture, they are very similar in appearance.

I really like the fact that the kit is made to use the original POA valve.


steelybill,
Here's a VIR eliminator kit:
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0910rc_retrofit_vintage_ac_systems/photo_07.html

If your car has one of these, that's what you'll need to replace it:
http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0910rc_retrofit_vintage_ac_systems/photo_06.html

I'm seeing that '77 may or may not have a VIR. Some GM cars went to Cycling Clutch systems that year. Those convert much better. If it doesn't have the big valve assembly with 4 lines attached, you're good to go with R134a conversion.

To Clarify it isn't the original POA He will sell you one and you will send yours in for a refund. He then takes the original POA and uses it for later sales after he adjusts your POA. To answer your other question about the condenser i couldn't find out more but you should be able to google the specs. But now here are the specs of the kit.


Sanden compressor assembly w/2-groove Pulley
Compressor mount brackets (Alan Grove brackets are available for most standard V8 Small Block and Big Block engines. Additional engine pulleys may be necessary)
Classic Auto Air's Perfect Fit™ condenser
Suction hose
Discharge hose
Liquid hose(s) & lines
Filter-Drier
O-Rings & Oil Tube
Refrigerant "cork" insulation tape.
Hardware
All hoses will be sent with one end pre-crimped. Once installation of condenser & compressor is completed, hoses will simply need to be cut to the proper length and have the supplied fittings crimped on.

Can I Install this Kit Myself?



The average hobbyist can install without difficulty
Charging the system, however, should be performed by a professional.
No other specialized tools or knowledge is required for installation of this kit.

:nanawrench::beer::smileyb:

To Clarify it isn't the original POA He will sell you one and you will send yours in for a refund. He then takes the original POA and uses it for later sales after he adjusts your POA. ...
:nanawrench::beer::smileyb:

Yea, I meant it's cool that the kit still used thePOA valve instead of a POA eliminator, not your old valve specifically. The POA valve is the heart of the 68-72 AC system and getting rid of it is actually a downgrade in some ways.

I need to get the specs on that condenser. (I'm just thinking out loud here) If it's a Parallel Flow type, it could also be used when converting those systems without the compressor swap.. There's currently not a "bolt in" PF condenser for these cars, they're all universal mount. The Prefect Fit unit will at least bolt into place without any hassle, although one fitting appears to be different. Hmmm...

Turns out you can buy just the condenser from them too. cost: 319 for the kit.

Mounts in front of the radiator. We have taken the time to design each condenser kit for model specific bolt on application. Includes all hoses/fittings, drier with hi-low safety switch, drier bracket, condenser with pre-engineered mounting brackets and aluminum tubes, and an o-ring assortment kit for easy installation.

I am sure if you give them a call tomorrow they will give you all sorts of specs. As well as i forgot to mention they do complete restores of systems too. they will re-do your entire system. GO FIGURE. I am even sure they can make the condenser your looking for. I'm telling you these guys are good and enjoy. They make custom systems too.

Turns out you can buy just the condenser from them too. cost: 319 for the kit.

Mounts in front of the radiator. We have taken the time to design each condenser kit for model specific bolt on application. Includes all hoses/fittings, drier with hi-low safety switch, drier bracket, condenser with pre-engineered mounting brackets and aluminum tubes, and an o-ring assortment kit for easy installation.

Sweet!
I just have to find out what "type" of condenser it is.

Why not just recharge with R12? It's a lot cheaper and will be much cooler than a retro fit with R 134a. You can still buy cans of R 12 for $25-$30.

Why not just recharge with R12? It's a lot cheaper and will be much cooler than a retro fit with R 134a. You can still buy cans of R 12 for $25-$30.
that is a great price for r-12.....one little thing, you need to be licensed to buy it now. least here in WA
We have a fleet of scrapers that are all older. came stock with r-12 systems. last time i had the ac guy charge up r-12 it was along the lines of 100 bucks a pound. I did a little studying and switched em over to propane. I know it has its own issues but it works very well. I did that switch over 5 or 6 years ago and have had no ill effects. i just charge em up at the beginning of the work season and forget about em. (you can not sit in the cab of one of them things on any sunny day with out a/c it's a big green house sitting on top of a 180* transmission and hydraulic system)
Last couple old cars i switched over i just bought the $40 retro kit from napa and changed the oil in the pump, couple orings, the high pressure switch and they work great. give it a try it might just work and save ya a ton of money, if it does not you are out less than $100http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac309/JohnBer_album/tractor005.jpg

I tend to agree with the comments about retaining the old system. A 134a conversion on the older cars can be made to work efficiently but as this thread points out it takes more than just an evacuation and refill of the system.

Conversion to propane on any mobile AC system is illegal and is VERY dangerous.

Personally I’ve been using Freeze 12 for over 10 years now on and am very happy with the results. Basically I replace any components required (normally the 25+ year old hoses and receiver dryer) and drop in the Freeze 12.

Here’s a pretty good write up on the alternatives to 134a.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/tr497.htm

..that is a great price for r-12.....one little thing, you need to be licensed to buy it now. least here in WA

The online, open book test is $15 and the cert never expires.

We have a fleet of scrapers that are all older. came stock with r-12 systems. last time i had the ac guy charge up r-12 it was along the lines of 100 bucks a pound.
That's the retail shop price. Many shops bought their existing supply when the price was through the roof. I just picked up a sealed #30 jug for $300. ($10/lb)


I did a little studying and switched em over to propane. I know it has its own issues but it works very well. I did that switch over 5 or 6 years ago and have had no ill effects. i just charge em up at the beginning of the work season and forget about em.
This is bad on so many levels. The least of which is that it's very dangerous and illegal.

Last couple old cars i switched over i just bought the $40 retro kit from napa and changed the oil in the pump, couple orings, the high pressure switch and they work great. give it a try it might just work and save ya a ton of money, if it does not you are out less than $100

That "might" work, but it "might" also grenade the compressor causing much more than $100 in damage. The success rate of those Death Kits is about 20%. Dropping in one of those kits is exactly the wrong way to do it.


The key to a successful AC repair is to be thorough and not cut corners. If you do it right, you'll only do it once.