I went to my Friend (Dean's) home today and got quit an education!!!
One thing I learned was that you always disconnect the dist before welding on the car. He showed me where MSD had a warning on their web-site about that. He said he also learned the hard way. It might not fry in one the spot but not to long after it can go out. I remembered that I had my dist. a couple of weeks before I had those Cherry Bomb mufflers welded on. I think it was like the next day when my 1 month old dist went out!!!:let_it_all_out:
Anyone else heard of this?:dontknow:
Donny

I don't think there is s connection between welding on the chassis and the distributor module and the only way I can begin to see it happening is if the engine was not properly grounded to the chassis and the welder grounded to the frame while welding the pipes. Even then, we'd hear stories of ECM's dying when people modified their exhaust.

I have a good friend with a muffler shop and I have never known him to disconnect batteries or ignitions before welding an exhaust system, and the cars start when he is through. The same was true of the weld on hitch folks. I recently had a bung added to the pipes on one of my Caminos so Ii could read the fuel mixture as I drove. That welding was done with the ignition off and everything hooked up. The system is built around MSD pieces, except for the Crane electronic distributor. I also welded some of he rear suspension components on my 78 with the Vette suspension. They are all still running just fine.

Not sure about the distributor going out but you are supposed to unhook the battery before doing any type of welding on a vehicle. People will argue about it and say nothing has or will happen but I have seen batteries explode a couple of times in cars when they weren't disconnected before welding. Not a pretty site. Also if you don't unhook it prior to welding it can cause the computers to fry which I've also seen more than once. So it might be possible for it to mess up the distributor.

"I found out what killed my dist." Don, I think your guessing and will never know the Truth. and sorry for your loss and I am sorry for my Bears Loss

Here ya go!!!!
http://www.malloryperformance.com/TechSupportKnowledgebase.aspx
type in (can welding) and look at whats there
Why would they keep saying unhook before welding?:dontknow:
Donny

Ok, Im not disputing that that can happen, You did no autopsy, so you have no proof,just a good case..........:beer:

Ok, Im not disputing that that can happen, You did no autopsy, so you have no proof,just a good case..........:beer:
O.K. Perry Mason:poke:, point well taken, I also seen something about not having a wire loop can kill one.
The truth is cheap, Evelbay Chinees junk!!!!
I liked the debate, the autopsy will begin tomorrow!!!!!:nanawrench:
Donny

Hey, Donny: It was prolly the noise of those Cherry Bombs that scared it to death!

Seriously though, if welding was a real problem for distributors, we'd hear of a lot more cases of distributor failure. I am pretty good at automotive electronics and I can't find a way that any stray current from welding can make its way into the ignition circuit if the key is off. Welding can create some electromagnetic interference, but if that were the problem, it would not care if the distributor was hooked up or not. It would only matter how close it was to the distributor.

I'd return the distributor under warranty and be done with it.

Im glad about the autopsy,you better be taking lots of pictures :poke:Im not gonna pick up the case that it would have to be in a circuit overload sennario to cause failure, possible but not likely, not yet,maybe never.................but will agree it is harmfull to certain distributors and when in doubt, play it safe

I don't know, this is a (family friendly) site. The pics. might be to graphic!!!!:nanawrench:
Donny

I have welded on quite a few vehicles without having distributor or battery issues. Does it make a difference on what type of welder you use ?

Donny I called the Texas Rangers and they will have their crack team on the case first thing in the morning. This is a case of murder after all.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7lEVhpniXLKkQTHAMbMS65Vos3ZKCo 1qgCAyVMYXVVsywUXF8

Hey, Donny: It was prolly the noise of those Cherry Bombs that scared it to death!

Seriously though, if welding was a real problem for distributors, we'd hear of a lot more cases of distributor failure. I am pretty good at automotive electronics and I can't find a way that any stray current from welding can make its way into the ignition circuit if the key is off. Welding can create some electromagnetic interference, but if that were the problem, it would not care if the distributor was hooked up or not. It would only matter how close it was to the distributor.

I'd return the distributor under warranty and be done with it.


And as for you, I really respect anyone that’s good with electronics, Water heaters now work on (algorithms?), ovens now have appliance managers, user-interfaces, 1 and some times 2 control boards, washers use electronic copper coil rotors and magnetic stators... :let_it_all_out:
Use to you could tell me a brand and symptom and I could tell you what part needs replaced, now I can spend an hour on a schematic only to find a part that I don't have a clue what it is or is suppose to do!!!
Then after all that you found a (fractured) wire in a ribbon!!!!!:let_it_all_out:
Sorry for the rant.
I wish I new electronics better, but I'm learning everyday! I respect your knowledge!!!
Donny

GO GRAPIC ,we can handle it, wheres your sence of courosity, go to it:shock::buttkick: UPDATE...........CSI is on the case,gosh I feel so much better, it might be a murder case, or maybe just a wreckless homicide

You people are plum crazy!!!!:screwy::screwy::screwy:
Donny

This is going to become a "COLD CASE" with the probably cause, a color subjective fuel injected CIG lighter with no internaly grounded driver directly tied to "MURPHY".


out:secret::secret::secret:/DDD

Uh, Donny, Plum Crazy is a Mopar color!

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT THERE IS NO WAY WELDING ON A SET OF MUFFLERS COULD FRY A IGNITION MODULE DONT CARE WHAT MALLORY OR MSD SAYS IVE RUN BOTH AND ACCELL AND HAD ZERO PROBLEMS IVE RUN THIS CURRENT SET UP IN NO LESS THAN 5 DIFFERENT RIDES ALL HAVING CUSTOM EXHAUST WITH NO PROBLEMS THE STATE OF WOODY RESTS ITS CASE:beer:

What is the state of Woody tonight.

see other thread i.e. pissed off at this forum:let_it_all_out:

O.K. so I searched (pissed off at this forum and nothing????)
Donny

Look here Donny.
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=39560

Lighten up guys most of the time there isn't a problem when welding and usually when it does happen it will nail the ECM but it can get any electronic device even the distributor ,thats why most shops such as a muffler shop that GMAW(mig) have a device that aborbs the pulse or acts like an interuptor in the ground circuit to give the pulse a less resistance path to follow.Most people automatically think of the hot side being the the path for the damaging pulse it isn't, it travels backward through the ground so the problem arises with the placement of the ground for the welder.You want to put the ground as close to where you are doing the welding as possible,if you are doing exhaust pipes they have magnetic grounds that you can put one on each side of the weld and connect cable to each one then connect the welder ground to the cables of the magnetic grounds.The damage is usually done when you start the arc for the weld.I could go on but I thimk you get the idea.

My guy just clamped the frame and started welding. I'm not blaming him or anyone it just wasn't good to have a new dist. go out so quick!!! Lifes that way!!!!
Donny

Clamping to the frame is not good. The engine is pretty well isolated from the frame of the car. There is rubber in both the engine and the trans mounts, and the exhaust is normally hooked to the engine. You also have rubber hangers that are to keep the exhaust system from vibrating, but they also insulate the exhaust from the frame.

So, if we go looking for an electric path that is heavy enough to carry the welding current from the frame to the pipes, we'll find there is none.. Sure, there is a heavy negative cable running from the engine to the battery, but there is no similar heavy cable from the battery to the body or the frame. In your case, the welding current could have tried to use the ground circuit in the distributor and damaged the module.

If so, the problem is not simply "don't weld on cars with electronics" but instead is to make sure the welder grounds to what he is welding, not some isolated piece of the vehicle like the frame. We know there are rubber body mounts everywhere. To keep vibration down, the factory isolates the frame from both the body and the engine. Likewise, the engine is isolated from the frame and the body. The only electrical path between them should be those tiny copper ground straps we so often leave disconnected - and those are not enough for welding.

So, if you are having anything welded on a car, you may want to watch to be sure the welder is bright enough to ground his welding to the part that he is welding!

when i had my exhaust welded a few months ago we clamped the ground to the exhaust no problems so far maybe it was just a fluke Donny given the way things a made today for quantity not quality or longevity :dontknow:

When I was a young guy, a local guy put the ground clamp for his arc welder on the axle of his farm truck, in the wheel center (it was handy I guess) to do some welding on the frame. You can guess what happened to the wheel bearings.......

lf Marg Helgenberger shows up with CSI, would you call me please? That would make my day. Thanks Donny.

Any voltage spike will ruin the module in a Mallory Unilite dist. I lost two because of welding on the car. Then I was reading the Jegs or Summit catalog and spotted an item that plugs in the harness between the dist. and the wiring that supresses voltage spikes. I installed one and haven't welded on the car since either. Mallory says to unplug the dist before welding. I hadn't seen that either. Some distributors aren't bothered by welding. The OEM electronic dist. on my 71 El Camino wasn't bothered when the exhaust was welded on or body work was done.

Many alternator diodes have gone down the pike from welding without disconnecting the battery. Any electronic item is susceptible - depending on how the current decides to find a ground path. Might not get you this time or next time but it will get you. BTDT

good to know, i have never herd of anyone having problems after welding, but i would rather be safe then sorry

bb

When the Coyote howls, you should listen!!!!
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=33387
3rd post down!!!!
Donny

interested in the autopsy. I also lost an ignition module on my 71 c10 very early. Purchased a brand new gmpp distributor and the module only made about 1500 miles. I dont know what happened, could just be more of my bad luck but there was lots of welding going on during that time and I have always known that disconnecting the battery should be done but as most of us was to lazy. Im afraid of the lashing ill get if I say the welding did it so ill say theres no telling what happened but there has to be a reason its recommended to disconnect the battery.

oh by the way lots of old cars are missing half the ground wires. The body frame engine and battery should all be connected with grounds usually multiple for each. My truck has lots of grounds which could help with the module failing. The grounds need to be able to carry as much or more electricity than the power side which lots of people with low voltage and dim lights dont realize

Looks like a revival of a 4 month old thread, but a cool topic to keep alive. Whether true or not, I'm finding these chassis ground straps to motors and bell housings are much more important that I'd have imagined. I've always thought in the past, that with the negative lead of the battery going to the engine bracket, to the engine itself, why would you need a chassis ground to the motor??? Recently I had heard of a GM TSB for some transmisison failures and the problem being the Torque Converter Clutch failing and also causing front seal leaks due to an electrical arc when the TCC solenoid is looking for a ground. :dontknow: I got this info second hand from someone else, and never investigated myself persoanlly since I hadn't come across that issue. As I was told, the fix in the TSB was to be sure there was a ground strap from the firewall to a bellhosing bolt grounding both the transmission and engine closer to the TCC solenoid and the arc would stop. :screwy: True or not, really its not that hard to place a couple ground straps on your engine and trans. Even if you don't have ground straps. Make your own out of some 10gu wire and solderless crimp on loops. Certainly won't hurt anything.

well let me get my two cents in here really one but it is possible to fry the distributor even the computer using high voltage on your mig i seen it happen twice and it only fried the ignition module and i seen it fry a computer bout three times alot of this is learning the hard way and playing around but if something is designed to take a certain voltage shooting high voltage through anything will mess it up even your A!@# lol he brings a valid point that ground strap is there for a reason so if you dont know why it best to hook it back sorry for the death donny but i have had a mallory die with no reason and a msd so i feel your pain