I read this in the June '04 issue of Car Craft. On page 26 and 27.
CA is after the hot rodders again. CA state assemblywoman Sally Lieber (D-District 22) has introduced another bill intended to repeal the current pro-car-crafting provision that allows emissions testing exemption of cars 30 years or older. Lieber's bill would abolish this and require permanent testing of all post '76 vehicles.
If this sounds like a bad CA rerun, that's exactly what it is. The current administration has failed to achieve their air quality goals and is now grasping for any type of plan the will help. This effort is contrary to the overwhelming evidence that shows that older cars represent such a small percentage of total vehicle population that these changes will deliver no positive movement toward cleaner air.
To fight this newest threat to older hot rods in CA, contact State Assemblywoman Lieber at: Assemblywoman.Lieber@assembly.ca.gov Or go to SEMA (http://www.sema.org)and click on the consumer button. This will tell you how to contact your state rep.


Just figured I'd pass this along.

:evil: Thats BS, they need to worry about more important issues

There is political gain to be had by pushing this issue although the smog problem will not be improved if the legislation passes. As long as politicians can get some gain for themselves by taking this action instead of the real productive steps, they will continue. It is sad that politicians support their financial base by playing these games. Wouldn't it be nice if we, the voters, could know how politicians will vote after being elected?

Might be time for another recall vote!

Yes it is True that Now Here in California all Cars and Trucks ( including El Camino's) older that 1973 do not have to be smog tested for smog emmisions. However, if the Bill is passed, ALL autos will have to be updaged with current smog systems.

BUT IT HAS NOT HAPPEND YET, LETS HOPE NOT......

I read in the Statesman Journal (Salem Oregon newspaper) that new Cali cars will have an even harder time passing new smog laws.
The manufacturers are going to pass the cost over to consumers.

I don't think that cost will stop at Cali either.

I read in the Statesman Journal (Salem Oregon newspaper) that new Cali cars will have an even harder time passing new smog laws.
The manufacturers are going to pass the cost over to consumers.

I don't think that cost will stop at Cali either.

Yea your right, It won't stop in Califonria.

We that are in CA. are setting the pace for the rest of the country for not only the Smog laws, but everything else our so called state goverment law makers say is for our own best interest....Yea Right....

God Help Ya all in the other states,,,pray for us here in CA. that their new goofy ideas won't work for your own sake.....

In Arizona we lost the rolling emissions exemption almost 20 years ago. Then we were forced to do not only an idle tailpipe test but a loaded test too. Not too fair in my book since the car bone stock was never designed to pass a loaded test. In fact if it was bone stock I could never pass which is what they really want anyway. THey call anything over 10 years old a "Gross Polluter" really, I didn't make that up. All us old Elky drivers out there are "Gross polluters" guess I shouldn't of had that burrito

Every year I get to go to the official State Emissions inspection station staffed by trained monkeys whose job it is to make sure they fail every car they see by driving it like it would never be driven. Of course its a 50/50 coin toss as to whether I will get flak about no catalytic converters. OF course a 74 model like mine that came from the factory running on regular gas won't have any.
8)
They also like to try to get me to pop the hood but I don't have to. anything older than model year 75 is limited to an equipment inspection that consists of checking the gas cap seal.

Now starts the fun of the loaded testing. They define the test as whatever they can do to get the car to fail an emissions reading under normal driving condtions. Unless you think its completely normal to take a car up to 90 miles per hour then stab the brakes then tromp on the gas again I would have to say it's a bit too subjective to be scientifically accurate.
(See they do that because it makes carbureted cars load up and puke fuel out the tailpipe so they can fail you on the loaded test.)

Here they test idle right at startup, then test at the previously mentioned 90mph then test idle again just after stabbing the brakes.

All in the name of cleaner air. Don't bother to mention that I drive my El all of about 3000 miles a year and only at night and usually on a weekend at that.

We here in AZ look up to you there in CA for your legislative creatvity as it relates to motor vehicles. IT seems our legislature so admires your legislature's shenanigans that we too are flirting with the idea of cleaning the air in creative ways like banning cigarette smoking everywhere statewide just like CA.

So don't fret, you're not alone cuz out here in the dust and cactus we don't seem to have a legislature that has a clue either..

Wouldn't it be nice if we, the voters, could know how politicians will vote after being elected?

You can, just look at how they voted before they ran for re-election. They can't hide their voting records they are a matter of public records and are free to obtain.

You can also figure out, pretty much, how they will vote based on their personal history if they haven't held office before.

You can also put the fear of no longer being an elected official by collecting enough signatures to demonstrate that you mean business on a topic and sending that information to them Via snail mail. Each signature would count towards getting your goals accomplished. That is how SEMA does it. Strength in Numbers. Make sure you let your representative know that this is not only a dead issue but should stay dead and never be offered on the table.

Look at it this way, even in hard economic time Car Parts Manufacturers, after market, make huge profits and employ hundreds of thousands of people. This would put those people out of work and hundreds of thousands of people would go onto the welfare rolls! That is a FACT.

If a Democrat steals 100 dollars from you then that is 1 person whose vote they won't get but if they now take that 100 they stole from you and give 1.00 to 100 people then there is 100 votes they get and so what if you don't vote for them they have 100 others that are stupid enough to put them in office. So you alone lose.

If you collect hundreds and even thousands of signatures then they fear for their high paying position and "power".


Just my OPINION!

:D

Lets face it...they want the older cars off the roads. If your driving an older car it's either because you can't afford something newer or your a car enthusiast who's probably driving what they consider to be a gas guzzler. If you buy a new car your stimulating the economy and at the very least paying sales tax of some sort to your state besides what you pay for plates every year. SEMA needs to invest some money into fighting politicians that force these laws on us...waiting for the next election to vote them out is to late...the damage is done by then. I don't believe in cars that are gross polluters because they were neglected...these vehicles do need to be off the road...but specialty vehicles need to be left alone...they may use more gas and pollute a lil more than newer vehicles, but we drive them less and usually take better care of them. They need to go after the real polluters...factories, coal fired power plants, the trucking industry, and the airline industry and others...oh but they pay more in taxes don't they? I think the real issue here is tax revenue and targeting small groups of individuals is less damaging to politicians then raising everyones taxes all at once...that surely won't get them re-elected next time they run. I would not be against paying a reasonable fee for a specialty vehicle waiver of pollution requirements as long as it's not pollution from neglect. Any vehicle thats still on the road after 25 years is probably not because the owner couldn't afford something newer, it's probably because it's been taken care of as an antique or a specialty vehicle and in either case is a part of American Automobile History. But Arnold wouldn't know anything about that would he?

Here in Georgia, SOME of the bureaucrats have taken at least one step in a positive vein....

They are beginning a program to automatically detect, photograph and ticket those cars that emit visible smoke on the expressways. in other words, target the REAL "Gross polluters".

One unfortunate side of all this is that a large part of these "laws" come because of direct threats from the EPA. They threaten to withhold funds from state and local govenrments if their clean air standards are not met. SO, the politicians have to scramble to attack the offending parties, WHOEVER they perceive them to be in order to save their funding for roads. In other words ...they have to grovel and react to get us OUR FAIR SHARE of OUR OWN TAX DOLLARS.

My question is.....
Anyone here vote for the twits in the EPA???????
THEY are the real enemies here.

http://www.scvcoa.org/page17.html

some get screwed but not all.

Ya know the best part about all these emissions laws it's their hypocrisy. More than once I have been behind a "fueled with clean efficient natural gas" cop car and watched it belching black smoke.

Oh well, What can you expect from a governor that drives a hummer.

Glad I don't live in CA.

Of course I live in AZ and things aren't much better here. In fact they're worse and force emissions testing and compliance all the way back to 1966 model year. We aint talking about idle testing either but rather loaded and idle testing.

:x 8-)

Pretty messed up isn't it ? It's gone to far, way to far for me....

One question: How long does it take to change out a Smog motor with a performance motor ? Maybe a day, if you know what your doing.

I think for my 5 Gen Elky, I will just change out the motor ever two years so I can have my cake and eat it too....

As long as I'm not somking out the pipe, they would never know what is going under the hood. I don't think I have any other choice that makes sence for my situation.

It won't be that long before they (the State Gov, Annold A.. hole) make all cars quailfy for harsh Smog testing.

GET READY MY FELLOW MEMBERS, NO MATTER WHAT STATE YOU ARE IN, THEY ARE OUT OT GET YOU TOO.....

Just thinking about it makes me sick....

James84Elky said that......

Super Chevy last month built an engine that turned out 400 horses and was completely Smog Legal in CA. They used all CARB Certified parts. The Peak avrage HP was something like 390 something but the peak hp number was over 400 horses. So, even if they pass the laws, which for the record I am opposed to, we can still have a good engine.

California has too many cars and that is just not going to change unless it gets to be a even bigger number. Every man women and child, number wise, has a car in cali. That is part of the smog issue. Where they sit and other atmospheric factors blend in to aggrivate the situation there. Mexico has the same issues. Let just annex California to Mexico and that will fix that issue altogether. :D

Sorry but I feel compelled to say this but... Democrats love to take your money and pass it out to all those poor individuals that don't work so they'll get votes. Then claim they did something "good" That is the "ONLY" difference between Democrats and Repiublicans they're both liars if their mouths are open!

I must say this has been and interesting read. I realize that the whole world is on an emmissions control agenda yet it seems all the effort seems to be aimed at cars and car manufacturers. curiously enough I believe that the Kyoto Accord was never signed by the United States yet there still seems to be some aggressive movement towards eliminating greenhouse emmissions. I think the car manufacturers have made the most progress out of everyone with cars today being cleaner burning than ever before and might even be cleaner than smoking a cigarette. I'm curious about ElkyFactoy's point that major manufacturing, coal burning and such, aren't being targeted. If they are you sure don't hear about it do you? His point is good that there is probably a connection between them and the money they pay/provide. I'm wondering at what point does the almighty dollar finally pay second fiddle to the survival of people. ok enough tree hugging banter...my question is are there other initiatives in the US to control emmissions other than the automotive industry?

I agree totally. being from an area of coal mines and steel mills I see the crap that gets put into the air and into the water. when you can't go fishing in the creek because the mine turned it orange and the acid killed everthing in it. or when a town as big as 40,000 people is constantly covered in a thin layer of dirt because of the mills. I think it is because everyone sees how many cars there are everyday, but not everyone lives near powerplants. and it is easier to throw the blame on something you have constant firsthand experience with rather than a problem which is more distant.

As long as I'm not somking out the pipe, they would never know what is going under the hood. I don't think I have any other choice that makes sence for my situation. James84Elky said that......

They thought of that too. If your "replacement" motor happens to go by one of the portable sniffers that they are putting on Freeway onramps out here in AZ they take a photo of the car, driver and license plate if you fail their "instant" emissions test. Then they make you either go to get an emissions test or revoke your plates if it's got too high of a level of HC, CO or NOx as you zoom by them. They do it on random surface streets too.

Also if you own a car older than a 95 out here in AZ you can't get a two year renewal so you have to test every year. That could get to be a real pain jerkin your motor out all the time and avoiding freeways.

It's a freakin racket and just designed to get more money in the state's pockets by going after the people who can afford it the least. I swear they have the price of your "violation" better thought out than the law you are supposedly breaking! Protecting the envirnonment my a$$, they're milking a cash cow so line up and go "moooo" everyone!

That goes for photo radar and red light camera's too. Almost makes you want to take the bus but that costs like 1.75 to take you nowhere near where you want to go.

I am sick of being treated like a criminal because I choose to own a vehicle that is over 30 years old! Yeah I'm a real "gross polluter" With my 1500 miles a year driven and those miles are on weekends! I know I'm not alone when I tell you that I do everything I can to make sure I stay as clean burning as I possibly can but our legislators don't give a rats behind about that. They want the older vehicles off the road so that those who can't afford to buy new end up riding public transportation and dumping more money into the state and those who could buy something new end up paying wheelbarrow loads of money in state fees and sales taxes on the new vehicle.

Oh yeah and our license plate fees in AZ are based on vehicle valuation too. So if you buy that brand new Chevy SSR in AZ for 45K expect your first years registration to be around 1000.00 bucks and ratchet down about 100 bucks every year after that. It levels off at 30.00 on my 74 but my 96 Camaro V6 is still up around 100.00 a year. Tell me that aint a racket.

I know, I know everyone says "vote out the bad guys if you don't like it." Problem is I haven't seen any good guys lately...

As long as I'm not somking out the pipe, they would never know what is going under the hood. I don't think I have any other choice that makes sence for my situation. James84Elky said that......

They thought of that too. If your "replacement" motor happens to go by one of the portable sniffers that they are putting on Freeway onramps out here in AZ they take a photo of the car, driver and license plate if you fail their "instant" emissions test. Then they make you either go to get an emissions test or revoke your plates if it's got too high of a level of HC, CO or NOx as you zoom by them. They do it on random surface streets too.

Also if you own a car older than a 95 out here in AZ you can't get a two year renewal so you have to test every year. That could get to be a real pain jerkin your motor out all the time and avoiding freeways.

It's a freakin racket and just designed to get more money in the state's pockets by going after the people who can afford it the least. I swear they have the price of your "violation" better thought out than the law you are supposedly breaking! Protecting the envirnonment my a$$, they're milking a cash cow so line up and go "moooo" everyone!

That goes for photo radar and red light camera's too. Almost makes you want to take the bus but that costs like 1.75 to take you nowhere near where you want to go.

I am sick of being treated like a criminal because I choose to own a vehicle that is over 30 years old! Yeah I'm a real "gross polluter" With my 1500 miles a year driven and those miles are on weekends! I know I'm not alone when I tell you that I do everything I can to make sure I stay as clean burning as I possibly can but our legislators don't give a rats behind about that. They want the older vehicles off the road so that those who can't afford to buy new end up riding public transportation and dumping more money into the state and those who could buy something new end up paying wheelbarrow loads of money in state fees and sales taxes on the new vehicle.

Oh yeah and our license plate fees in AZ are based on vehicle valuation too. So if you buy that brand new Chevy SSR in AZ for 45K expect your first years registration to be around 1000.00 bucks and ratchet down about 100 bucks every year after that. It levels off at 30.00 on my 74 but my 96 Camaro V6 is still up around 100.00 a year. Tell me that aint a racket.

I know, I know everyone says "vote out the bad guys if you don't like it." Problem is I haven't seen any good guys lately...

Oh No, more doom and gloom. I don't think I can stand it anymore !!!

Ok, so if we all are basicly secrewed, how do the cars and trucks that are about 50+ years old still stay on the road ? ? ?

There got'a be some answer other thatn a completely new crate stcok motor, somg legal, with no guts.... Hmmm got'a to be a way....

Well the answer for us Elky guys is to make sure we don't buy any more elkys newer than 65. Not even the Emissions SS police worry about those anymore.

The other alternative is to hijack a newer LT1 or LS1 motor with it's CPU and emissions goodies and put that into your ride. I would actually like to try that but it's cost prohibitive for me.

That and no CATs because mine never had 'em would be a real plus.

But I am also hoping to rebuild the 400 I took out of my 74 too. I'd like to change it over to a TPI setup which I know will probably mean Vortec heads instead of the old 882 castings that came off the 400. I know there are aftermarket EFI setups that can use stock heads but I don't think I would gain much without a whole lot of head work on the 882's.

But I have also read that vortec heads can cause an increase in the NOx emissions. I don't think they log that reading for my year Elky yet but if they do that could be a real hassle.

:D

With the technological advances made in ignition, and fuel delivery systems in the last dozen or so years,90% of the "emission controls" installed on new cars are unnecessary and rob fuel mileage. Several years ago,my father bought a new car.The first thing he did was disable the smog crap(remove) and have the local shop install custom dual exhaust on it.When it came time to sell it,(Calif requires the seller to provide a smog check) it passed the emissions test with numbers so low you wouldn't believe it,better than most "smog compliant" cars. BUT,The insp. shop told my dad that they couldn't pass the car because the state mandated smog CRAP wasn't there.It's just a racket to line the pockets of politicians and "special interests". :x

I wouldn't worry too much about the proposed bill, guys.
There are these kind of bills every session but the fact is there are too many problems to overcome for CA to revert to the old testing age standards.
Like... unavailable parts, old retrofit NOx and crankcase devises pre-existing or not, lack of reliable standards for aftermarket add-ons, not to mention the low income sector and lack of funds to buy out "gross-polluting" low income vehicles. The list goes on and on.

My opinion....
Chill out.


DANNY

I wouldn't worry too much about the proposed bill, guys.
There are these kind of bills every session but the fact is there are too many problems to overcome for CA to revert to the old testing age standards.
Like... unavailable parts, old retrofit NOx and crankcase devises pre-existing or not, lack of reliable standards for aftermarket add-ons, not to mention the low income sector and lack of funds to buy out "gross-polluting" low income vehicles. The list goes on and on.

My opinion....
Chill out.


DANNY

I have to agree with Danny / Shapr71. Come to mention it, how many bills in the past that were summitted for a vote and never hurd from again,,,,
Many, for too many.
I agree with ya'all, lets just don't panic and jsut see what the real truth is..

I for one can't afford to go out and purchase a some what new ride, and, I really don't think the State of California is going to buy me out either...

I'm ready for the Battle, if ya want to call it that...

Hang in there people, there's strenght in numbers...."I AM THE POWER OF 1"

James84Elky
said that......

I wouldn't worry too much about the proposed bill, guys.
There are these kind of bills every session but the fact is there are too many problems to overcome for CA to revert to the old testing age standards.
Like... unavailable parts, old retrofit NOx and crankcase devises pre-existing or not, lack of reliable standards for aftermarket add-ons, not to mention the low income sector and lack of funds to buy out "gross-polluting" low income vehicles. The list goes on and on.

My opinion....
Chill out.


DANNY

I'm PO'ed about what they've already done.

I got such a hassle at emissions this year that I came about a hairs breath from flattening the fat a$$ emissions moron that was disturbing me. Long story short he threatened to call the cops on me if I didn't leave...I smelled urine coming from his direction too....oops...sorry mr beauraucrat.....

Anyway, I went to another "official" testing station and had no issues at all.

I hafta tell you though, the trip from the first testing station to the last one was spent considering the sale of my Elky if I had the same kind of hassle. Normally I wouldn't waste my time with such thoughts but this kinda crap is just one more thing I don't need in my life.

They are misguided idiots, however well meaning they think they are..
:cool:

The thing that worries me most is the fact that the politicians are never satisfied with what they have. They are always looking for ways to "improve" the emissions levels. "Improve" = get more money from you and I. Just think how difficult it would be to pass emissions if the bar is raised higher and higher. I suspect that will happen pretty soon and it may already be underway in Calfiornia.

In my county, emissions testing has been underway for just a couple of months. Failure rate is reported to be 9% of the vehicles tested. Repair facilities such as Pep Boys, Maxi Muffler, etc. reported that 7 to 9 vehicles per week are showing up for repairs because they failed the test. Vehicle owners have said some repairs are running over $600 per vehicle.

A couple of years down the road, when fewer vehicles fail the test, I suspect the requirements will get more stringent because results of the program will prove less beneficial than predicted. There's no way that bringing 9% of the vehicles into compliance will lower emissions enough to achieve the goal. That will be the excuse for raising requirements. Guys, the door has been opened. Hold onto your hats because you have not seen the worst yet. Meanwhile the big trucks continue to belch big clouds of black smoke as they go merrily along their way.

Incidentally, the Tennessee Valley Authority recently agreed to spend over one billion dollars to clean up some of their coal fired generating facilities.

You're right, Spoonplugger... The good intentions quickly become an industry reliant on your/my $$$.
Here in The Great State of California, we have been testing vehicle emissions since 1974, in one way or another.
We have always juuuust missed the projected goals of the respective test/repair program.
Of course, that means a "new and improved" program with the inevitable cost increases.

I do believe in clean car, clean air.

I do believe we should all pay more attention to the way our vehicles run.

I'm very concerned on who is running the ship and where we are headed.

I got such a hassle at emissions this year that I came about a hairs breath from flattening the fat a$$ emissions moron that was disturbing me. Long story short he threatened to call the cops on me if I didn't leave.I would like to suggest that you do the ONE thing that all petty bureaucrats hate ... file a complaint against him for "misuse of authority". These people are paid to do a job. There is absolutely no reason that they have to hassle you.

The thing that worries me most is the fact that the politicians are never satisfied with what they have. They are always looking for ways to "improve" the emissions levels. "Improve" = get more money from you and I. Just think how difficult it would be to pass emissions if the bar is raised higher and higher. I suspect that will happen pretty soon and it may already be underway in Calfiornia.The driving force behind this is that the number of people, cars and stinking factories continues to climb. Politicians call this "progress". They consider the air polution created by this to be a problem (they're right), and try to fix it in ways that won't get them kicked out of office.

I think that the solution would be to remove the ability for companies to trade 'pollution credit'. This allows a company that runs cleanly to transfer it's ability to pollute to another company. If this trading were to cease, they'd ALL have to meet the air quality standards. Of course, the polluting companies will force ANY politician who suggests this out of office, so none of them bother to try.

It's too bad we can't trade pollution credits on cars.

WRT a "clean" engine vs. a high performance engine, why not choose components that allow both? They exist. Buying CARB certified parts shows the manufacturers that there are people who want to be able to breathe clean air, and who are willing to pay for the ability to do so.

I'm currently planning a engine replacement for my '74. Clean burning is one of the goals. It doesn't cost all that much, and it helps in the long run.

Good news here in North Carolina. Vehicles from 1970 prior are not even required to go through inspection. (35 years or older) Peal that sucker off!

One thing about calif smog laws,they are not standard across the state.I live in what's considered a "low impact" county that has a lower population ,and have not had to have a smog test done on ANY of my vehicles in 20 years,including cars I've owned that were newer than '86. Though smog tests are still required when you initially buy and register a car, UNLESS you buy the car from a "family member" or relative. This is simply a matter of your statement that it was purchased , or a gift from a relative.

Thats right ''corn burners'' the great state of Minnesota just passed a law that mandates that all gasoline sold by 2013 must have 20% ethanol ( thats 40 proof) this to help in air quailty and to help our ''poor farmers'' get rid of there corn---by the year 2014 the only thing running at our drag strips will be John Deere's---Internationals Harvester's and a few Ford garden tractors and Iam not talk'en about tractor pulls. This stuff is hard on carb gaskets, fuel injectors and fuel pumps---SO don't complain to loud you could become CORN BURNERS---LOL

Well, up until earlier this year Arizona was still selling MTBE blended gas in all grades. This is the same stuff that was outlawed in 20 states for causing cancer and contaminating ground water supplies. It also smelled really bad and added about .10 per gallon to the price of fuel.

So we get slowly poisoned at every fillup, pay extra for the privilege and screw up the ground water supply in a state that consists of 85% desert with less than 6 inches of rainfall a year.

And our state legislators actually fought getting rid of it until they found out it was going to start hitting some of the more obese wallets that live around here after a gasoline pipeline broke that went from Tucson to Phoenix.


8)

Here in Nevada even if you bring them a smog cert saying you passed , they resmog it on thier machine, (Which of coarse will fail an ant if it farts).Don't know about other states, but here after you get your Classic Vehicle to pass (or spend 450.00 to ,of coarse a state certified shop)you can drive it up to but not more than 2500 miles a year without having to smog it again.You do have to go to the D.M.V. so they can verify the mileage.

My friend and I prepared his 88 chevy work truck for the smog test. Tune up, all new filters, 02 sensor, etc. Then, we siphoned the gasoline out of the tank, replaced it with 2 gallons of unleaded 106 octane racing fuel and added two bottles of heet.

Test results: HC: 6 PPM Limit: 220
CO: 0 % Limit 1.20
CO2: 14.72% No limit established

I just heard a rumor that AZ may finally be bringing back the rolling exemption for cars 15 years or older. I guess the video tape of me
making the emissions guy pee his pants at the emissions test station last renewal time had an effect!

We'll see come next May when my tags are due.

:)

I see that the last post here is 5 years old, so don't flame me for posting, but now chevy offers a 50 state smog legal LS2 crate engine that makes 400 hp out of the box. Not exactly cheap, but plenty of H.P. and clean burning. 400 horses are more than any car I have owned, and I'd very much like to have one in my 86 1/2 ton. http://paceperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=265464