Re-locating cross member for 200-4R... [Archive] - El Camino Central Forum : Chevrolet El Camino Forums

: Re-locating cross member for 200-4R...


Dinosdad
05-15-2011, 07:41 AM
We just removed a VERY broken TH-350 from Our '80 Caballero-305 and will be replacing it with a freshly rebuilt 200-4R.

We currently have a Summit Racing cross member with the "Double Hump" clearances for dual exhaust that We installed last spring.

This One...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/55041050-1.jpg

Does anyone here know how far back dimensionally the cross member has to move?

Any thing else we need to know so that We can prepare for the switch-over?


Any help would be Greatly Appreciated, as always!;-)

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

JJLT1
05-15-2011, 08:52 AM
the t350 is 20 3/8" from the bellhousing to the mount and
the 200r4 is 27" ..:texas:

darbysan
05-15-2011, 09:17 AM
They make a "Frame Extender" for the early model G-bodys. It extends the frame on the driver's side for moving the crossmember back.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=SUM-770307&dds=1

Dinosdad
05-15-2011, 09:39 AM
JJLT1 ...darbysan:


Good News all around...Thank You BOTH so much for that info!

I thought I saw a post here (some time ago) on using the Summit cross member I have, (shown in pic) moving it back about 6 1/2 " - 7" and drill/bore the necessary holes in the frame rail to accomodate the cross member. Was I dreaming or does anyone here recall
or care to elaborate on how to proceed with this?

Thanks Again, Folks! :cool1:

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

darbysan
05-15-2011, 10:25 AM
I can't comment on re-using the crossmember, but I can comment on the frame. I think it was '83 when the frame on the driver's side was extended. If you have an '83 or later frame, then you should be able to drill holes for the mounting. The earlier frames did not go back far enough- hence the need for the extender. You can tell just by looking at your frame on the drivers side. Look at where the crossmember is now bolted, and then follow those bolt holes back 8" or so. Should be able to tell if there is material there for drilling.

texaselky
05-15-2011, 10:34 AM
You need a new crossmember. Check put the iceman on Malibu racing, he's got what ya need. He is also pitqueen on e bay. You may or may not need the frame extended I did on my 84.

steelybill
05-15-2011, 12:41 PM
I thought that the 2004R mount distance from the the front of the case was close to the same as the TH350, in which case you wouldn't have to move it (??) Maybe I read this wrong ?

Dinosdad
05-15-2011, 01:14 PM
I thought that the 2004R mount distance from the the front of the case was close to the same as the TH350, in which case you wouldn't have to move it (??) Maybe I read this wrong ?


As JJLT1 Stated: the t350 is 20 3/8" from the bellhousing to the mount and
the 200r4 is 27" ..:texas:

I'm going out to the driveway right now to "scout out " and see what I can see...

I'll get back and let Ya'll know what We find.;-)

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

Dinosdad
05-15-2011, 01:27 PM
We crawled under the Truck and, because we had to unbolt the cross member and get it out of the way to remove the TH-350, We were able to move it back
a good deal. Here is what it looked like Before we installed the Dual Exhaust...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/DSC00464-1.jpg

There seems to be enough room to navigate the cross member back to where it needs to be. If I am not able to Fabricate some frame extender brackets of my own, then I will go with the frame extenders from Summit Racing that darbysan provided the link for...

Of course, If Anyone here has been down this road before me...Well...Some directions
would be Nice! lol

Thank You Again,darbysan!:cool3:

And Thank Ya'll here who stopped in and responded to this thread!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

Dinosdad
05-15-2011, 02:34 PM
You need a new crossmember. Check put the iceman on Malibu racing, he's got what ya need. He is also pitqueen on e bay. You may or may not need the frame extended I did on my 84.

Hey, texaselky!

Thanks for Your reply! I'm curious to know why You said that I need a new cross member.

It seems that the cross member I now have will work fine with some additions and/or
modifications.

Thanks Again texaselky!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

steelybill
05-15-2011, 09:22 PM
Sorry about the post on length to the mount. I must have been thinking about the drive shaft being close to the 350 length (?)

Maybe it's the age thing again........:smileyb:

JJLT1
05-16-2011, 02:44 AM
link to all the elky cross members/pics at summit

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/Summit-Racing/Product-Line/Summit-Racing-Transmission-Crossmembers/Make/CHEVROLET/Model/EL-CAMINO/Transmission/Automatic/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc&autoview=SKU

with 6"difference id think you need the extension and a "straiter across" cross member..

one thing i noticed,,the 350 cm in the pic dosnt have the tab for the mount,,
looks like it bolts thru the cm like others do??

Dinosdad
05-16-2011, 05:25 AM
link to all the elky cross members/pics at summit

http://www.summitracing.com/search/Brand/Summit-Racing/Product-Line/Summit-Racing-Transmission-Crossmembers/Make/CHEVROLET/Model/EL-CAMINO/Transmission/Automatic/?Ns=Rank%7cAsc&autoview=SKU

with 6"difference id think you need the extension and a "straiter across" cross member..

one thing i noticed,,the 350 cm in the pic dosnt have the tab for the mount,,
looks like it bolts thru the cm like others do??

Good Morning JJLT1 and Thanks Much for the Summit link! Now that You brought that up,
It occurred to me that the cross member is not from Summit...It is a Jegs unit.

As I mentioned earlier,this swap-over is getting expensive, so if there was some way to
adapt My current cross member, I would like to pursue that avenue.

I'm not sure why you think a straighter cross member would be necessary...Please
let me know what Your thoughts are...Any help We can get is Genuinely Appreciated!

The mounting tab is there...the picture was taken from the front of the Caballero looking
back towards the rear...You can see the oil pan (green) then the trans inspection cover,
transmission pan and the mounting tab directly in back of that.

Even if there was no mounting tab, We have metal fabricating and welding capabilities,
so any mods that might be necessary can be done on site. I'm thinking that we might just get the trans in place first, block it up into position and then take it from there.

Any additional suggestions are certainly Welcomed!

Thanks Again for the come-back, JJLT1!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

texaselky
05-16-2011, 06:47 AM
I just did that swap a few months ago, I had the same crossmember and if it would have worked I would have used it. Of course, just about anything can be made to work. The easiest thing to do is get one made for the application and go on. I sold my TH 350 crossmember on Craigslist and recouped most of what the one I needed cost.
Also you will need to have some gears in the back around 3.73 or so or you'll never get out of 3rd and see the benefits of the od.:texas:

Dinosdad
05-16-2011, 12:10 PM
I just did that swap a few months ago, I had the same crossmember and if it would have worked I would have used it. Of course, just about anything can be made to work. The easiest thing to do is get one made for the application and go on. I sold my TH 350 crossmember on Craigslist and recouped most of what the one I needed cost.
Also you will need to have some gears in the back around 3.73 or so or you'll never get out of 3rd and see the benefits of the od.:texas:

Good Food for Thought, texaselky!:idea:

Yup...We got a Brand New Eaton posi with 373's. I'm wondering now if they are what got us into trouble with the TH-350 in the first place!:twisted::shock:

Gonna' give ICEMAN a buzz and see what he says. Thanks Again for the Heads-Up! :cool3:

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

darbysan
05-16-2011, 01:36 PM
IIRC, Iceman also has Frame Extenders, and I think his prices should be better than Summit.

Dinosdad
05-16-2011, 02:38 PM
Thanks Much, darbysan!

I can't for the life of me, figure out how these Freakin' things mount! Any thoughts?

Who is IIRC? Already saw the Summit units...Even downloaded the instructions...

Still dosen't register in my Head...Could be many things don't register in my head anymore!

lol!

I went under the truck again today...Still confident that I can fabricate a set of extenders
from 3/8" steel plate that would be simple to install and Probably exceed the requirements
of those advertised.

Still open to suggestions from anyone here that might have other options!

Thanks Again, Folks! :You_Rock:

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

JJLT1
05-16-2011, 02:45 PM
x2 on the expensive,,but its worth it..

yep any thing can be made to fit (with a saw and some welding),,and then some people want bolt in..

when u get the trans in place,,youll be able to see just what u need..thats the way to go..

as for the strait-er cm,,
just looking at the pics at summit,,the 350 cm looks like it angles back a lot more than the 200r4..
i was thinking there must be a reason why they dont just make longer frame extenders ???

and all the cm's at summit dont have the tab on the rear of the cm,,for the trans. mount,,
they all look like they bolt thru the cm,,that would move the cm even farther back??
which kinda didnt make sence??

as for the trans install
fill the converter with fluid before u put it in the trans.
make sure the converter is all the way in the trans.
wash out the cooler and lines.
when u get the 4 bottom bolts in the bell housing,,jack the trans. up till it touches the floorpan,,
but watch out for the fan shroud,,and put the last 2 bolts in from the top..
make sure to adjust the tv cable:texas:
iceman link > http://www.maliburacing.com/iceman/

Dinosdad
05-16-2011, 03:59 PM
JJLT1...Hope Ya'll don't think a a Hard Head! lol

Something 'Ya said here is something We both agree on...


"when u get the trans in place,,youll be able to see just what u need..thats the way to go.."

I briefed over the cross members at Summit...Some of the pics show cross members
up-side -down...can be misleading. Did not see a cross member for a "G" body without frame extenders...leads me to believe that they are the same ,just using extenders.

They are obviously made by different manufacturers, but the geometric lateral mounting plane remains the same for the TH-350 and the 200-4R.

Gonna' do some more dimensional research on this...I value and respect your input!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

JJLT1
05-17-2011, 01:36 AM
no no,,thats not being a hard head,,thats just building your own car..:beer:
get that thang in there and let us know,,maybe a pic..
x2 on the upsidedown and different builders,,makes it hard..:texas:

iirc = if i recall correctly ..which may be getting harder..

just plain john
05-17-2011, 02:25 AM
I have done the 200R4 swap into my 81. As mentioned, the drivers side mount is further rearward. Later models had mounting points in two spots on the drivers side framerail, but up until 83 they just had the front holes. I used part# FE 100 from http://www.transmissioncenter.net/gforce_double_hump_crossmembers_.htm?gclid=CICv15n T7qgCFaxk7AodQS85EA#th400. Sorry to say, but there's a physical difference between the two crossmambers and I don't think the early style can be used with the 200R4. If you are able to move the drivers side back far enough, the trans mount is too far rearward. I can provide a pic or measurements if you like. Good luck.

Dinosdad
05-17-2011, 03:15 AM
Mornin' John!

Yup...Pics would be GREAT!

What measurements were You referring to? I have the dimensional prints of both the TH-350 and the 200-4R...Any thing else You might have would be Welcome!

Thanks Much, John!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer:

Dinosdad
05-17-2011, 05:37 AM
just plain john wrote:

"I have done the 200R4 swap into my 81. As mentioned, the drivers side mount is further rearward."

John, My Caballero is an '80. I know for a fact that the Driver's side mounting rail is set
FORWARD more than the passenger...Don't know if that's what You intended, but I took a few pics and they looked like this...

Looking at Driver's side rail with the TH-350 cross member in place...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/DSC00842.jpg

Additional space behind Driver's side cross member to add additional extension rail...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/DSC00843.jpg

Passenger side rail...

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/DSC00841.jpg

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w119/fleetline51/DSC00844.jpg

So, Two things for sure...The PASSENGER side rail is further back than the Driver's side
and there is definitely room for frame rail extensions,whether fabricated or purchased,in
the open space provided.

I can purchase 1 1/2" x 3" x 2' rectangular tubing, 1/8" wall ($14.00) and cut it to size as necessary. Some simple machining will provide for mounting and clearance holes.
From what I can tell, It would result in the same side rail extension as Summit Racing
or Iceman's...It would bolt in the same manner as either one of the aforementioned units.

From calculations given Me by JJLT1 (Huge Thank You JJLT1!) and other sites on the internet there is a longer distance from the face of the bell housing to the center line of
the transmission mount of 6 5/8".

We are going to get the 200-4R mounted FIRST and then deal with the trans mounting options. We'll keep Ya'll posted (w/pics as We progress.:wink3:)

As always, Thanks Again for All your help and Input!

Best Regards,

Tony :beer: