I am trying to find a bit of information about the sequential production number for vins, especially for an 87. Mine is 901303, and I was told by GM's historical department that this is a production number for all cars in the plant (I was trying to find out for sure where mine was in the production run of just 87 elcos).

Is this true? They seemed somewhat unsure and took a couple days to find the info for me.

The dealership had told my grandpa (original owner) that it was one of the last three off the line, but the dude was a salesman, so I have always taken that with a grain of salt. :???:

One of the last 3 would have been sold as an 88. There were 200 or so 87's that didn't sell in 87 so they sold them the next year as 88's.

I don't believe this for a minute, show me 1 of these 200 1988 El Camino's and I'll believe in all 200. :beer:One of the last 3 would have been sold as an 88. There were 200 or so 87's that didn't sell in 87 so they sold them the next year as 88's.

BTW mine is 914851 built in Aug 1987. I am trying to find a bit of information about the sequential production number for vins, especially for an 87. Mine is 901303, and I was told by GM's historical department that this is a production number for all cars in the plant (I was trying to find out for sure where mine was in the production run of just 87 elcos).

Is this true? They seemed somewhat unsure and took a couple days to find the info for me.

The dealership had told my grandpa (original owner) that it was one of the last three off the line, but the dude was a salesman, so I have always taken that with a grain of salt. :???:

LINY, Have you ever ordered anything for your Elky online and searching for parts for a 5th gen and it showed 78-88. It was not a misprint. I don't have to prove anything, do some research or waller in your ignorance doesn't matter either way.

I meet a guy at a gas station. He was looking at my camino & told me his camino was a 88. Did not have time to check his vin had to get back to work!! :dontknow:

Ya, I figured as much, especially since I am almost positive he bought it in Dec of 86 or Jan of 87. Doesn't matter to me, I still love my Elco, 90% of the appeal for me is how my grandpa treasured it and now I get to drive it. The other 10% is just that I love the truck and look forward to fully restoring and moding it!

A 1987 model sold in 1988 is still a 1987 model vehicle. They cannot change the model year, its coded into the VIN and they cannot change it. No way, no how.

No 1988 models were built. It all stems from the same confusion mentioned here about 87 models being sold in 1988 and incorrectly interpreted as 1988 models.

One of the last 3 would have been sold as an 88. There were 200 or so 87's that didn't sell in 87 so they sold them the next year as 88's.


I can't speak intelligently about Chevrolet, but I know with reasonable certainty that there were no GMC Caballeros available, 'cause I would have acquired one. As a sales manager for a Buick-GMC dealer, I drove at least one Cab every year from '83 to '87 as my company car. It is likely that GM followed the same pattern with the Camino that they did with the Buick Grand National. They continued to run only GN's on the production line into December of '87, long after Regal production had ceased. Having been in the new car business for over 30 years, I have seen situations where a states title designated the year on a leftover vehicle as the year it was first titled rather than the year it was produced, even though the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin read otherwise.

Bill

LINY, Have you ever ordered anything for your Elky online and searching for parts for a 5th gen and it showed 78-88. It was not a misprint. I don't have to prove anything, do some research or waller in your ignorance doesn't matter either way.
Hey zeberfert, I can tell you're a math teacher. Waller, is a town just west of Houston and the county seat. Wallow is what Yankees do in their ignunce!!!:poke: Get 'em boy!! how 'bout dem apple?:beer:

Should be easy enough to tell if anyone out there happens to have or has seen a J for the 10th digit in the VIN then it would be an 88 model year. If it has H then it would be considered an 87 model but maybe left over and was sold in the 88 model year. I myself have never seen one with a J in the VIN not to say there are none who knows.

10th digit of the VIN
D 1983
E 1984
F 1985
G 1986
H 1987
J 1988
K 1989

This is for info only,it doesn't really help with your question.
http://www.chevelles.com/elcamino/ec_total.htm

Just show me 1 1988 El Camino and I'll believe in all 200. Never happened. I don't care what the catalog people print. Just show me 1. :beer:LINY, Have you ever ordered anything for your Elky online and searching for parts for a 5th gen and it showed 78-88. It was not a misprint. I don't have to prove anything, do some research or waller in your ignorance doesn't matter either way.

Still no proof, just stories. :beer:I meet a guy at a gas station. He was looking at my camino & told me his camino was a 88. Did not have time to check his vin had to get back to work!! :dontknow:

Liny I guess you'll just have to find one for yourself as anything you find on here in your words will be stories.
I personally owned two 1970 Firebirds that were built in the first two months of 1970 and used the 1969 style body and by your attitude and thinking if you didn't see it, it didn't happen.That position on your part only leaves you to confirm or deny the truth and your entitled to that opinion but I don't believe you're going to find too many to sympathize with that possition but you are welcome to it,I wish you a good day and may your outlook on the things that are or are not improve.

Were those 1970 Firebirds VIN'd as 1970's or 1969's? I known that the General used parts till they were gone. Show me 1 1988 El Camino. Just 1. :beer:Liny I guess you'll just have to find one for yourself as anything you find on here in your words will be stories.
I personally owned two 1970 Firebirds that were built in the first two months of 1970 and used the 1969 style body and by your attitude and thinking if you didn't see it, it didn't happen.That position on your part only leaves you to confirm or deny the truth and your entitled to that opinion but I don't believe you're going to find too many to sympathize with that possition but you are welcome to it,I wish you a good day and may your outlook on the things that are or are not improve.

[quote=LINY;324903]Were those 1970 Firebirds VIN'd as 1970's or 1969's? I known that the General used parts till they were gone. Show me 1 1988 El Camino. Just 1.


I love the FREE entertainment on here. Thanks for all the funny post. Michael in Virginia

9.2% unemployment, 50 million folks on food stamps, a national debt equal to our annual GDP and growing, a totally dysfunctional congress, and a general disdain for politicians and we find ourselves arguing over date codes on vehicles more then two decades old.......Time to elevate our game !!!

Liny I guess you'll just have to find one for yourself as anything you find on here in your words will be stories.
I personally owned two 1970 Firebirds that were built in the first two months of 1970 and used the 1969 style body and by your attitude and thinking if you didn't see it, it didn't happen.That position on your part only leaves you to confirm or deny the truth and your entitled to that opinion but I don't believe you're going to find too many to sympathize with that possition but you are welcome to it,I wish you a good day and may your outlook on the things that are or are not improve.


I remember that situation well, since I was working for GM at the time. The changeover from the 1st generation to 2nd generation Camaro and Firebird at the Norwood, Ohio plant was considerably later than the other plants. For those old enough, you may remember the "new" F-bodies as being labelled 1970 1/2, something easily forgotten with the passage of 40 years. Completely unrelated to the Camino / Caballero discussion IMO. The costs to a vehicle manufacturer of emission certification alone for a single model are staggering, requiring thousands of unit production to amortize the costs, not just a few hundred. The reason why we don't have the multitude of gear ratio selections that we had in 60's vehicles is that it's just too expensive.
I too stand in the skeptics camp. Until I see a VIN plate with the 1988 model year designation, I'll consider all the '88 Camino talk as just another automotive myth.

Bill

No pics..... It never happened!:poke:
Donny

If this is what you want to discuss go to another forum. JMHO :beer:9.2% unemployment, 50 million folks on food stamps, a national debt equal to our annual GDP and growing, a totally dysfunctional congress, and a general disdain for politicians and we find ourselves arguing over date codes on vehicles more then two decades old.......Time to elevate our game !!!

NADA don't list one.
Donny

For those old enough, you may remember the "new" F-bodies as being labelled 1970 1/2, something easily forgotten with the passage of 40 years.Due to production delays the 1970 Camaro was introduced in February 1970, half way into the production year. Because of this, some people will call the 1970 Camaro a 1970 1/2, but officially the car is a 1970 model year Camaro.

No pics..... It never happened!:poke:
Donny
Pictures of Vin Numbers ???????:dontknow:
Title showing 88 ?

Let's see both for just 1 car. :beer: Pictures of Vin Numbers ???????:dontknow:
Title showing 88 ?

Give me a minute and I'll make one up for you!!!:poke:
Would the owner of a REAL 1988 please stand up!!!:dontknow:
Donny

Give me a minute and I'll make one up for you!!!:poke:
Would the owner of a REAL 1988 please stand up!!!:dontknow:
Donny

YOU TELL THEM DONNY!!!!!!!!!:let_it_all_out::let_it_all_out:

Like a couple have already stated the 425 el caminos sold in January and February 1988 which are probably left over from 1987 , so they would have been counted and serial numbered as a 1987 . If this is the case a person would have to have a sales reciept dated from 1988 to prove that it was one of the last 87 models sold. If there is a chance that these were actually assembled in 1988 from left over 87 parts then they would be serial numbered as an 88, have a 88 build sheet and it would be easy to authenticate the vehicle . I have never seen or heard of a 88 serial numbered el camino I will be skeptical that any even exist until one is actually seen and documented . If anyone evers comes across a 1988 serial number or build sheet please do not forget to get pctures.

I have to clear something up and I knew when I posted it that something was off.I stated that it was Firebirds but I found my old notebook and it was Camaros not Firebirds that were registered as 1970s and they both had build dates in November of 1969(different weeks)one was first sold in New Mexico in January of 1970 and the other was sold in California in Febuary 1970.Since the new model year for cars starts in September,on a date adjusted by circumstances within the industry the VIN # generated on or after that set date is automatically becomes the next years model even if there is a bodystyle change in mid production.
But that is not actually what my post was about.I can understand being sceptical about a specific vehicle being a 1988 and not believing it until I see it but not believing any were made unless I could see one even when shown production #'s that are usually arrived at by comparing manufacturing production #'s and and vehicle registrations for a given year of a model.There just isn't any reason for them make up a lie about the production of a 1988 El Camino that I can see,there just isn't any benefit in it.The 1988 model will be as a matter of model year be more rare but the only one that would be actually worth more than all the others is the very last one built !
Because they like the F-Body cars, so few 1969 bodystyle registered as 1970's the 1988 El Camino's are just simply harder to come across,it's tantamount to finding 400+ specific needles in a pile of thousands and denying any were made just doesn't sound logical to me.I worked in manufacturing for 29+ years and they don't stop production to wait for the next specification or product to be ready to go into production it simply cost too much money to do so,they will simply continue the present one until everything is in place to make the smoothest change possible.I assume that GM's board decided that they were not selling enough of the El Camino's to warrant a continued production and so they just shut it down.There may have been other circumstances that added to that decision that only GM knows about and we most likely never will.
Again sorry folks for the mistake in saying Firebird instead of Camaro.

I wrecked a 64 1/2 Mustang with the 260 v8:texas:

Blah Blah Blah. :beer:I have to clear something up and I knew when I posted it that something was off.I stated that it was Firebirds but I found my old notebook and it was Camaros not Firebirds that were registered as 1970s and they both had build dates in November of 1969(different weeks)one was first sold in New Mexico in January of 1970 and the other was sold in California in Febuary 1970.Since the new model year for cars starts in September,on a date adjusted by circumstances within the industry the VIN # generated on or after that set date is automatically becomes the next years model even if there is a bodystyle change in mid production.
But that is not actually what my post was about.I can understand being sceptical about a specific vehicle being a 1988 and not believing it until I see it but not believing any were made unless I could see one even when shown production #'s that are usually arrived at by comparing manufacturing production #'s and and vehicle registrations for a given year of a model.There just isn't any reason for them make up a lie about the production of a 1988 El Camino that I can see,there just isn't any benefit in it.The 1988 model will be as a matter of model year be more rare but the only one that would be actually worth more than all the others is the very last one built !
Because they like the F-Body cars, so few 1969 bodystyle registered as 1970's the 1988 El Camino's are just simply harder to come across,it's tantamount to finding 400+ specific needles in a pile of thousands and denying any were made just doesn't sound logical to me.I worked in manufacturing for 29+ years and they don't stop production to wait for the next specification or product to be ready to go into production it simply cost too much money to do so,they will simply continue the present one until everything is in place to make the smoothest change possible.I assume that GM's board decided that they were not selling enough of the El Camino's to warrant a continued production and so they just shut it down.There may have been other circumstances that added to that decision that only GM knows about and we most likely never will.
Again sorry folks for the mistake in saying Firebird instead of Camaro.

Here's a 88 camino for sale it says built on 10/87 the vin code is H for 87 but the title might say 88 ? http://www.americandreamcars.com/1988elcamino012108.htm

Need I say Blah Blah Blah again? Here's a 88 camino for sale it says built on 10/87 the vin code is H for 87 but the title might say 88 ? http://www.americandreamcars.com/1988elcamino012108.htm

What happened to all the 1988 lovers? Chirp Chirp. :beer:

I have to clear something up and I knew when I posted it that something was off.I stated that it was Firebirds but I found my old notebook and it was Camaros not Firebirds that were registered as 1970s and they both had build dates in November of 1969(different weeks)one was first sold in New Mexico in January of 1970 and the other was sold in California in Febuary 1970.Since the new model year for cars starts in September,on a date adjusted by circumstances within the industry the VIN # generated on or after that set date is automatically becomes the next years model even if there is a bodystyle change in mid production.


You are misinformed on the Camaro.


The vehicle model year is coded into the VIN and cannot be changed UNLESS they issue a new VIN which they never do. When the car is built they are mandated (since 1968 to stamp concealed VIN derivatives on the body, frame, engine and trans so as to be able to prove authenticity of the vehicle and its parts for theft prevention and prosecution. So a car company arbitrarily changing the model year of a vehicle just because of when its sold is prohibited. There are very strict VIN laws and car companies face huge repercussions for any violations. Someone I am acquainted with worked back then in assembly plant management and he told me the FBI and state police would randomly show up in the assembly plant and audit blank VIN plates, damaged plates and vehicles for proper locations of the concealed vin's. Crime was rampant back then and laws were being passed by the day to curb car theft and car chop shops.

Again, no 1969 model year Camaro's were ever sold as 1970 models. Never happened and that is well documented.

From Camaro Research Group
The automotive industry typically used (and generally still does) a model year that is offset from the calendar year. Sales dates for a car model typically start in September of the prior year and end the following August. Production start/stop dates are generally a month before the sales start/stop dates. For instance, the 1967 Camaro was built from August of 1966 through July of 1967. If a 1967 Camaro has a cowl tag date of 12A (indicating that the build month and week were December/first-week), then the car was built in December of 1966 (not December of 1967). A production gap of a couple of weeks between the end of one year and the start of the next was common, and used to changeover the plant for the next model year. There are exceptions to this and the end of model year for the 1969 Camaro is one. The build for the 1969 Camaro was extended from July 1969 to November 1969, because the 1970 Camaro was not ready for release (http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#When). A: First generation Camaros were built from the 1967 model year (starting with August 1966 production for the September 1966 model launch) through the 1969 model year. Note that the 1969 model year was an unusual one for Camaro, since it extended through November 1969, several months beyond the conventional end of model year.
The extended 69 production and the delay of introduction of the '70 Camaro was not purposeful, nor was it related to labor problems; it was late because the quarter panel draw dies failed during final die tryout and had to be rebuilt from scratch. Fisher Body had lots of troubles drawing the 1970 quarter panels without wrinkles and splits. They attempted to correct the problems by modifying the draw dies during final tryout but the problems got worse instead of better. Fisher finally had to redesign/rebuild the draw dies, which delayed the launch by 4-5 months. Chevrolet decided to extend the 1969 model, which created a wild scramble, as this meant extending part supplier contracts for the '69 (suppliers had already committed their facilities to other business), finding alternate capacity for '69 parts, etc. The PR department attempted to spin the delay in a different direction for public consumption as GM never publicly admitted any internal problems or failures, especially within Fisher Body, its biggest manufacturing Division, with the biggest tooling budget. But the delay of the 1970 Camaro was a black eye for Fisher Body Die Engineering, as it was the first production launch delay that was ever laid at their feet.
http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#When


Anyone interested in assembly plant operation should read this. It was written by Retired automotive assembly plant manager and former automotive engineer involved in the Camaro. http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

BTW the author of that article is a personal friend of mine. :beer:You are misinformed on the Camaro.


The vehicle model year is coded into the VIN and cannot be changed UNLESS they issue a new VIN which they never do. When the car is built they are mandated (since 1968 to stamp concealed VIN derivatives on the body, frame, engine and trans so as to be able to prove authenticity of the vehicle and its parts for theft prevention and prosecution. So a car company arbitrarily changing the model year of a vehicle just because of when its sold is prohibited. There are very strict VIN laws and car companies face huge repercussions for any violations. Someone I am acquainted with worked back then in assembly plant management and he told me the FBI and state police would randomly show up in the assembly plant and audit blank VIN plates, damaged plates and vehicles for proper locations of the concealed vin's. Crime was rampant back then and laws were being passed by the day to curb car theft and car chop shops.

Again, no 1969 model year Camaro's were ever sold as 1970 models. Never happened and that is well documented.

From Camaro Research Group
http://www.camaros.org/geninfo.shtml#When


Anyone interested in assembly plant operation should read this. It was written by Retired automotive assembly plant manager and former automotive engineer involved in the Camaro. http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml

BTW the author of that article is a personal friend of mine. :beer:
To quote some wise sage.. "blah blah blah"

:) :) :) To quote some wise sage.. "blah blah blah"

YIKES! There are two concurrent threads on this topic. Has anyone ever seen an 87 that didn't sell in 1988 that went on to be sold as an 89 model ?..just sayin lol

Actually, it's not 200 that is being told were sold, it was 420. I've been on the sites that say this, but none have actually produced a VIN for an '88, unless it was an Olds '88'!:texas:

My 1981 is actually a 1981 and 3/4 based on the VIN number, do I get some kind of prize for that? Is it worth more or less than a plain 1981 or a 1981 and 7/8?:dontknow:

At this rate we may see the first 1990 sold.:poke: or 1990 1/2:poke: