silicon or petroleum grease?

1BadElky · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: silicon or petroleum grease?

I'm installing my refurbished front (stock) upper and lower A-arms. I'm using Energy Suspension Poly bushings. I know to use the supplied silicon based grease for the bushings, but there will not be enough left for the bolts and upper cross shafts.

should I grease the bolts/shafts with wheel bearing grease, or silicon based grease? I know it's probably a trivial thing, just wanted to do eveything right.

BTW, on the subject of suspension, what happened to Dennis68? he hasn't posted since '06. I'm a little concerned.....
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theelcaminofactory · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject:

Neither...use graphite!
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464elky · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject:

I like to use a thin film of anti-sieze.
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1BadElky · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject:

thanks for that, now the next problem.

on the lowers, the inner sleeve seems too big for the stock size bolt. there is alot of wiggle room. I was wondering if they are intended for older 5th gens (7 Cool

and S10 which use 1/2" bolts, as opposed to the 79-87 G-body 12mm 10.9 bolts.

I get sick of all these mis-matched fastners!
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Formerly 86Conquista

Currently undergoing resto.
Planned:
-350/?/3.42
-ZQ8 wheels
-Disc Brakes
-More

Mama Mayhem · Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: silicon or petroleum grease?

elcam84 · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:39 am Post subject:

The wiggle room in the bolts to sleeves is Ok. It should have some.

As for the grease use the silicone stuff and buy more to goop it up really good. Even so it will start squeaking after a while and bind up the suspension immediatly. Do not use regular grease on them.

Poly bushings for control arms are not a good idea. Instead of acting as a bushing it acts as a bearing because the poly cannot flex and the grease is to allow it to move inside the steel sheel and not squeak.
They also bind up the suspension which doesn't let the suspension move easily and gives the illusion of good handling at times. You want the suspension to move more freely not less.
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theelcaminofactory · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:03 am Post subject:

elcam84 · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

They are great in a compression application but not a rotational one. the exception to that is the swaybar bushings.

It's not the material it's that it's too stiff and not bonded to the shells and sleeve to work properly. It can be done properly but it's not because they have convinced the public that stiff bushings are good.
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1BadElky · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject:

admittedly, the use of polyurethane in the rear is not a good idea, and I'll likely upgrade from the rears in a short time. since I bought them I've read about how they tend to bind up rear suspension due to the converging 4-link's necessity to accomodate a roll situation, which is compromised by rigid trailing arms and poly bushings. so I'll probably do something much better when I get a chance (money). I could use spherical joints in the rear to allow complete movement, but at the expense of wearing out the mounting points... and my teeth on bumpy roads.

until I can find a cure for the converging 4-link, I'll see what happens with the poly. (launching= good. cornering=ehhh...)

As far as the fronts, though, they are indeed an improvement. there is no need for flex in the front like is required by the rear. the only axis is up and down. while Del-A-Lum would be ideal for the front, they again transfer alot or wear and vibration.

but back to the lower moulting bolts, I tried a 1/2" bolt through the hole, and it fits perfectly, so I was clearly sent the wrong inner bushing sleeves. I got my Spohn performance 12mm bolts in the mail today, they fit too loose for me to feel good about it, so I'll have to contact ES and see if they are even aware of the conflicting hardware.

one step forward, two steps back... the story of my entire rebuild.
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Formerly 86Conquista

Currently undergoing resto.
Planned:
-350/?/3.42
-ZQ8 wheels
-Disc Brakes
-More

elcam84 · Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject:

Poly isn't good up front because...
The way the arms move at the pivot point is that the rubber flexes a certian amount. The rubber is bonded to the sheel and the inner spacer.

With poly the bushing is not bonded to anything so the bushing cannot flex like it's designed. The reason it's not bonded is because the manufacturers use too stiff of a grade of poly.
So since it's not bonded and cannot flex properly it's just loose on both. Now you have a big goofy beasing. So you have to grease everything so it can rotate and act as an improvised bearing. It does a very poor job at that even with the things greased up well.

So what happens is that the suspension cannot articulate well up and down and basically it holds the car at a fairly flat stance all the time weather it's around a turn or bumps and pot holes. Kinda like driving a go-kart with no suspension.

As for Del-a-lum they are basically a bearing but they donot have the sticking problem. They along with the right springs and shocks will give you one of the best rides you have ever had in a g-body and handle great too. They let the shocks and springs do all the work.
No problem with mounting points with those because they are actually putting less strain on the mounting points and transferring that force to the shocks and springs.
I'd run solid steel bushings before I ever put poly bushings in an a-arm.
Best choices for a-arms is good rubber like Delco or Moog then you get into the del-a-lum style stuff. Spend your $ on good shocks, springs and other goodies though.

As for the rear for street same again new rubber is fine. Box the stock lower arms and forget about it. If racing then it's a little different but not much.

There isn't a need to do anything too radical with the bushings on this style suspension.

And if anyone reads this and still wants poly front bushings I have a set that I will gladly sell. They were in a friends car for a short time and saw the light after driving it for a while. Went back to rubber and never looked back.

Not just making this stuff up Smile

but years of practical experience and simple engineering facts. The only thing keeping the poly guys going is hype and advertizing. BTDT seen it happen way too many times to others and trying to save others from my own and others past mistakes.

As for the bolt hole size. I'll see how big the holes are in the set on the shelf is. Wouldn't surprise me if they are just making one part for all of them.
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