Too Much Oil?

El Monstero · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Too Much Oil?

I have a 305cid made in 1978:
I dont know why but when I fill the oil to the full line on the dipstick, my car smokes on start up. But if I only fill it to the half way mark on the dipstick, it does not smoke at all on start up. Is it possible that the dipstick is not the correct one, & too long, or the oil pan takes less than four qt's?

mhamilton · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:26 am Post subject:

How much are you putting in? Should be 5 quarts with a filter change.

1BadElky · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:37 am Post subject:

my b2200 does that same thing. wierd.
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CoyoteOn2 · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:

Paul, Sounds like you may have worn Valve Guides. A comp. test may
be in order. Oil capacity on the 78 305 is 5 qts, with filter change. Running
it low on Oil will only increase wear. A little smoke at start up is of no MAJIOR concern, unless your adding Oil every 50 to 100 miles. And that would be more than a little smoke. Valve Job would more than likley take care of it. BUT concider this ~~~ a good Valve Job on top of high mileage
Rings will increase there chance of failure, leading to a bottom end rebuild. Decision time Paul, Valve job now, lower end later (wasted labor, time money) engine re-biuld, engine swap to that 350 or 383.
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dougs85 · Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

This could be just the the valve stem seals not doing their job. They get old and brittle allowing oil down the valve stems and into the combustion chamber. This would be a fairly easy job on a '78 that does not have all of the emission controls on top of the engine like the later ones.

I would not get too hasty about doing a complete valve job or rebuilding or replacing the engine, without checking at least one cylinder's valve stem seals.

Doug
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El Monstero · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:51 am Post subject:

If the valve stem seals are worn out & leaking, why would it not smoke with less oil vs. full level of oil? When the engine is running the oil gets in all the same places, regardless of amount of oil that sits in the oil when engine is off, right? How does a different amount of oil change the way the engine leaks, burns it out into the exaust?
I'm just trying to understand the function of the oil pressure, & amount effecting the way it can leak, thank you for all your guys really good input!
(If it needs a rebuild, I will definatly replace it with a new 350,
after I really kill my current 305, cause it still has good power)

CoyoteOn2 · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:36 am Post subject:

OK, Let me try to explain.
Think of it this way, while it's running, it burns 1 drop of oil at a time, After the car sits over night you may have 50 drops of oil that it burns at start up. NOW, that's what is leading to valve stem seal / guide issues. If it were more of a Ring issue, you would have smoke more often as the rings ability to wipe the cylinders has detereated, or have become broken. I hope this will shed some light, I'm just not real good at the explanation department, I'm sure someone will chime in and also assist with a better understanding / explanation.
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old_coot · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:46 am Post subject:

I don't agree----the oil pump pick up is within a quarter of an inch of the bottom of the oil pan----if its where it should be. so the oil pump will pump even when the engine is low on oil---up to the point where it pumps all the oil out of the pan up into the heads faster than it can drain back to the pan---the biggest problem with running the engine low on oil is that the oil's primary job is to cool the lower part of the engine and less oil means it doesn't sit in the pan long enough to cool so the oil and the engine bottom end run hotter so bearing wear becomes an issue even though the cooling system is keeping the bulk of the engine relatively cool.
If the engine smokes when its full of oil but not if its low I would expect the cylinder walls are getting more oil "splashed" up on them than the oil rings can clear away---or there are scratches on the cylinder walls or a combination of those....My guess would be that this engine is on its way out and running on borrowed time. this Bandaid would last too long I suspect----if the compression rings are ok and the oil rings bound up with deposits this would be the results----at this point you may want to try some oil additives to loosen the oil rings. Normally I would not recommend this but I feel you have little to lose by trying it now.
I think its time to start making preparations for that crate engine........................Dan
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86_Caballero · Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject:

I"ve noticed the local auto parts stores are listing the PF454 now instead of the PF25 Delco filers for the 305 V8. I've got a supply of PF25's I'm still using, but the PF454 looks like it holds less than a quart. If you are using a smaller filter, you may try using 4 and 1/2 quarts on your next oil change.
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El Monstero · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:41 am Post subject:

szonk · Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject:

Also another thing that a lot of drivers may or may not be aware of, and more so in SBC motors is the importance of keeping that oil level at the "full" mark. You pull that dipstick out and read a half qt or so low and often think its safe and ignore it you will also be replacing timing chains often.
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Red Elk · Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject:

Irrespective of oil filter capacity .. dipstick level is still dipstick level.

Valve guides leak when there is oil up in the valve covers .. so low oil level won't make any difference.
Smoke from full to dipstick level is normally caused by worn oil control rings.
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El Monstero · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject:

It seems to me there are many factors like the engine is built, (not stock).
I dont no the cam degree, or the clearance's in building the block, I have no specs. What if the dip stick is not the right one, what if the dip stick is out of a different engine with more oil capacity and a longer dipstick, and they just stuck it in the 305 that I have. What if the oil pan is not stock and has a lower oil capacity, and the engine builder used the same dip stick? I know why engines smoke, its when the oil gets to some were its not suppose to, and thats a results of worn valve seals, rings ect.
Another possible cause of variances in amount of oil consumption may be worn oil pump, or blockage from dirty windage screen, causing a lower and higher pressure, resulting in oil getting farther into some parts when pump is working good, or blockage in not in the way. Does any of these ideas sound like possibilitys???

Red Elk · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject:

Engines smoke from getting oil into the combustion chamber. Oil pressure .. whether low or high won't make a difference.

Leaking valve guide seals .. sloppy guides will cause oil to be drawn down the guide normally when coasting down hill (will show when you get back on the gas), or after the engine has been shut off, left to stand and then restarted.

If your engine smokes after it's been left to sit, and the only difference is the level of the oil on the dipstick then either the dipstick is wrong (level shows too high), or the oil control rings are worn or sticky.

A larger capacity pan will only hold more oil below the level required.

Try getting another dipstick for your engine and see if it's the same (I suspect it will be).
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ElkyHolik87 · Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:32 pm Post subject:

wow this is a very involved discussion I learned a thing or two. kinda on topic i have a concern about to much oil in my motor if any would be so kind to help. when i first got my 68 i did a tune right away (was siting for a year and a half) changed the oil and oil flter about 50 miles later a changed it again but i couldint get the filter to come off i gusse i put it on a little to tight i tryed for 45 minutes i didnt have one of thous oil fiter tools so i gave up and put five courts oil and a addative wich was 8 ounces. so i got extra oil from what was in the filter and the additive on top of the five courts. should i drain a little or will i be fine??
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