What to do with a TH200-4R while it's out?

[TexasT]

http://www.mainewomensrugby.com/cwal...2/DSC06175.jpg

A couple things Ill add. That tag indicates an 82 model year so this was assembled before the updates of the later units, no hardened stator support as evidenced by the wear. Most likely needs a hardened sun shell, and could use to be updated to the torrington bearing instead of the bushings. Will need hardened pump rings and a new slide spring to keep the pump volume at high rpm.

As indicated, a good shift improver kit will get the larger boost and reverse valves and associated springs to get the pressures up to the needed range. It will also include some accumulator springs to firm up the shifts and possible instruct drilling out some of the holes in the vb separator plate to adjust how it shifts.

I didn't see where the governor question was answered so here goes. The governor is under the pan and isn't accessible without dropping the pan and the associated fluid bath. It is at the rear under the odd shaped four bolt cover. The vb/gov combo is designed to work together so intermixing pieces should be done with caution. Shaving the weights on the governor can be done to raise shift points but too much isn't always easy unless you weld. Taking a bit at a time and sneaking up on the proper rpm is easier than trying to put weigh back on unless you weld. So several fluid baths may be required to get it to shift where you want.

Others my have more on the subject.

[TrannyMike]

Originally Posted by TexasT

http://www.mainewomensrugby.com/cwal...2/DSC06175.jpghttp://www.mainewomensrugby.com/cwal...2/DSC06175.jpg

A couple things Ill add. That tag indicates an 82 model year so this was assembled before the updates of the later units, no hardened stator support as evidenced by the wear. Most likely needs a hardened sun shell, and could use to be updated to the torrington bearing instead of the bushings. Will need hardened pump rings and a new slide spring to keep the pump volume at high rpm.

As indicated, a good shift improver kit will get the larger boost and reverse valves and associated springs to get the pressures up to the needed range. It will also include some accumulator springs to firm up the shifts and possible instruct drilling out some of the holes in the vb separator plate to adjust how it shifts.

I didn't see where the governor question was answered so here goes. The governor is under the pan and isn't accessible without dropping the pan and the associated fluid bath. It is at the rear under the odd shaped four bolt cover. The vb/gov combo is designed to work together so intermixing pieces should be done with caution. Shaving the weights on the governor can be done to raise shift points but too much isn't always easy unless you weld. Taking a bit at a time and sneaking up on the proper rpm is easier than trying to put weigh back on unless you weld. So several fluid baths may be required to get it to shift where you want.

Others my have more on the subject.

2004R's have a tendency to upshift early and downshift late. 1st of all don't grind on the weights. This mod will fix the problem 95% of the time and is simple. Pull the pan and remove the governor. Next identify the large weight. Now remove the spring and leave it out. Grand Nationals and Turbo Buicks don't run that spring. Re-install everything with a new filter and pan gasket. Be sure to flatten the pan rails to prevent a leak. If you have loctite put a drop on each clean pan bolt. Be sure you've cleaned the case threads with carb spray. Drive your car and wipe the silly smile off your face, LOL!

[TexasT]

http://www.atraonline.com/gears/1999.../gjul99p16.htm

While searching and surfing around for more 2004r info I came across this article. Thought it pertinent to the topic.

[TrannyMike]

Boy that's an oldie but goodie. I remember that article when it came out. I've been an ATRA member for 25 years and an ATSG member for about as long.

When you get into REAL drag racing and 10ths of a second are critical then you'll see guys that really know automatics get into what this article is talking about. You need a scale that measures spring pressures at a given height and a selection of springs handy that are more or less pressure in small increments and a lot of patience because you may end up pulling the valve body off a few times to get exactly what you need.

[TexasT]

That's what I have been told. A very sensitive scale and a a caliper to measure wire size and spring height. It is all about tuning and how bad you want to get it shifting "right".

Do you have any reccomendations where to begin?
I am planning on a white spring in the 1-2 accumulator and a res spring in the 3-4 accumulator to start. The stock plate(i am using an AA Cadillac cb/gov combo) I will remove the spring on the gov as you reccomended.

I want it smooth at part throttle and crisp at wot as I don't want to break parts.

I have a lot more time that I do budget. I plan on a five gallon bucket of 303 and a strainer, and plenty of gaskets.

[TrannyMike]

The tweaking that you are talking about doing doesn't begin until you've road tested it and know how and when it shifts at the different throttle openings. Are you running a shift kit? If so what brand?

I have a box with literally hundreds of valve body springs I've acquired through the years. Where do you plan on finding springs to tweak the shift points?

What is this cars main use? Is it a race car or daily driver with some high performance mods? The reason I ask is you are getting a little anal about having the "flawless shift". Most people would install a nice Transgo or Superior Industries kit and then fine tune the shifting with the governor and be happy. The cable should be adjusted so it's at full throttle at the same time the carb is.

Go with a kit like I said, and I bet you'll be happy and will not have wasted a lot of time.

[TexasT]

I never think of working on cars as actual work. It is fun to me, a way to unwind. As far as springs it seemsas many of the trans parts wholesalers offer springs for many applications to try. I have an excellent selection of local places too that have parts. Springs seem pretty cheap and I have more time than money to spend on kits n such. One size fits all never seems to work well.

Turbo Regal is where the first one shall reside. It had one from the factory so tv cable and such came with it. Unfortunately when new I was paying to have it get fixed and back then no one I found could get it to last. A local place was good at 700r4 so the drive shaft was cut and cross member modded to fit. Worked until not long ago when the converter developed marbles in it and it was deemed necessary to go back to the 2004r. Very stock or so it appears. That is why I was looking for the stock appearing servo . I do have a 27 spline converter and a local place to cut it and rebuild it. It is about a 2800 stall lockup piece.

The next one will go into my GS but I thought it smart to get this one right first.

Thank you very much for the help.

[TrannyMike]

Originally Posted by TexasT

I never think of working on cars as actual work. It is fun to me, a way to unwind. As far as springs it seemsas many of the trans parts wholesalers offer springs for many applications to try. I have an excellent selection of local places too that have parts. Springs seem pretty cheap and I have more time than money to spend on kits n such. One size fits all never seems to work well.

Turbo Regal is where the first one shall reside. It had one from the factory so tv cable and such came with it. Unfortunately when new I was paying to have it get fixed and back then no one I found could get it to last. A local place was good at 700r4 so the drive shaft was cut and cross member modded to fit. Worked until not long ago when the converter developed marbles in it and it was deemed necessary to go back to the 2004r. Very stock or so it appears. That is why I was looking for the stock appearing servo . I do have a 27 spline converter and a local place to cut it and rebuild it. It is about a 2800 stall lockup piece.

The next one will go into my GS but I thought it smart to get this one right first.

Thank you very much for the help.

Who cares if the servo looks stock? You've already done a trans conversion to a 700 and that's a much bigger change from stock than a cover. Look you can't buy valve body springs like you will need anywhere I can think of and I've been in the business for 36 years. I'd be concentrating on being able to build it right using kits for your 1st one since you've never done it before. You aren't going to think it's unwinding or relaxing if you throw away good money that you said you don't have. Trust me I've seen this happen before. What you want to do many experienced techs haven't even done. It's not as easy as you think it is. By the way, tell me what supplier is selling selective valve body springs separately?

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by TrannyMike

Who cares if the servo looks stock? You've already done a trans conversion to a 700 and that's a much bigger change from stock than a cover. Look you can't buy valve body springs like you will need anywhere I can think of and I've been in the business for 36 years. I'd be concentrating on being able to build it right using kits for your 1st one since you've never done it before. You aren't going to think it's unwinding or relaxing if you throw away good money that you said you don't have. Trust me I've seen this happen before. What you want to do many experienced techs haven't even done. It's not as easy as you think it is. By the way, tell me what supplier is selling selective valve body springs separately?

I want it to "appear" stock. Speak softly, and carry a big stick, you been around, isn't that what Hurst/Olds Doc Watson used to say?

Future plans include a stroked 4.1L and a BIG stock appearing turbo but making power isn't any good until I can get what I am making to the pavement and doing it reliably.

http://www.transmissionpartsusa.com/
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/me...ry_Code=200-4R
http://atransmission.info/gm-transmi...-4r-parts.html
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/20...tm#Performance Parts
http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/54177BST.html

These places seem to have springs of all sorts if you are willing to comb around on their sites. They might not be specifically for the 2004r but they are springs and we have a hard part recycler I visit that has MANY valve bodies and other hard parts to try. Though I was disappointed He hasn't been able to locate a big th200 servo.

I did hit a place friday that had a "692" cover. Is this better than my servo I have that came in the AA?


Pix of the release spings side by side.


AA cover vs Aluminum cover of unknown origin(I bought it used years ago)


Casting number on the AA servo.


Pic of the side by side internals


Big spring in there. Must be some big force to compress that.

Should I start another thread to ask about the servos so we don't get off the op subject or is this closely enough related?
I also wonder what these pieces do.

The smaller one came out of the AA and was on the pin on the trans side of the big spring.



Oh, and again I really appreciate your patience with me. Thank you so much for helping and sharing your VAST knowledge!

[Mr.NastyTimes_86_eLky]

This thread was a wealth of knowledge... engines not in yet and my 2004r is just hanging there.. Im going to have to tweet with it.. i already have a 2300-2500 L/U converter for it.. shift kits and a quick look-sees all around sounds like might help.. trans looks new tho.. low(er) mileage cruck..

[TrannyMike]

Well none of those sites sell individual valve body springs for what you want to do. Like I said I have hundreds of valve body springs from bodies I've worked on through the years. That's how I have them.

Since you are resistant to my advice you are on your own pal. Some people have to learn the hard way. Good luck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by TrannyMike

Well none of those sites sell individual valve body springs for what you want to do. Like I said I have hundreds of valve body springs from bodies I've worked on through the years. That's how I have them.

Since you are resistant to my advice you are on your own pal. Some people have to learn the hard way. Good luck.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

Thanks for the help.

[number9]

I just got off the phone with a very helpful gentleman from TCI, and he said this kit should do what I want for a Quadrajet (even though it says Edelbrock).



It includes the bracket and a special TV cable. If I was using a generic GM TV cable, I think I could use this bracket. Looking at eBay, a GM TV cable seems to go for about $20 + shipping, so the TCI deal looks good given a bracket on it's own is almost $30.

The guy from TCI also pointed me towards this vacuum-operated lock-up wiring kit, but I'll probably do it manually with a 12V switch to start.

[TrannyMike]

OK what manifold are you running? The bracket looks different for a stock or aftermarket low rise manifold unless you've got a big high-rise or an air-gap manifold. The lock-up kit is a good price..... not because the components are worth that much, but trying to round up all the right parts is time consuming so I feel it's worth it.

The cable looks like a 350 style cause the "slider" type of carb connection. 700's & 2004R's have a "snap-on" type of connector at the carb. Double check that because there are all kinds of set-ups and I could be wrong.

[number9]

Originally Posted by TrannyMike

OK what manifold are you running? The bracket looks different for a stock or aftermarket low rise manifold unless you've got a big high-rise or an air-gap manifold. The lock-up kit is a good price..... not because the components are worth that much, but trying to round up all the right parts is time consuming so I feel it's worth it.

Mike, I'm running an Edelbrock Performer Vortec intake as I have Vortec heads. So it's not an air-gap manifold and I don't think it's a high-rise one either. It's a little weird as neither Summit nor Jegs sell the TCI TV kit I mentioned, but everyone sells the vacuum kit...

The cable looks like a 350 style cause the "slider" type of carb connection. 700's & 2004R's have a "snap-on" type of connector at the carb. Double check that because there are all kinds of set-ups and I could be wrong.

Right now I do have a "slider" type throttle cable on the carb. The car was built with a 'Glide but has a TH350 in it now.