700R4 swap information - El Camino Central Forum : Chevrolet El Camino Forums
El Camino Central Forum : Chevrolet El Camino Forums
 
Ground Up
Notices

User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-05-2011, 04:46 PM
Ocean-Angler Ocean-Angler is offline
Junior Member
Twisted Wrench
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino
Region: 17(S.CA,S.NV)
NECOA #: 17874
Posts: 23
Ocean-Angler will become famous soon enough
Default 700R4 swap information

OK guys
Ive got a 1970 el camino (3rd generation). I am in the process of swapping a 700R4 into the car, and have had lots of headaches finiding information, so Im now putting it up so people can find this here when theyre looking.

Swapping TH350 with a 700R4 in a 1970 el camino -

crossmember- You will not have to replace the crossmember, however, you will have to move it back 1.5 - 3" and REDRILL some holes. In addition, on my car, if you buy a Energy suspension cross member mount, it will push the bellhousing into the floor pan. I had to cut my floor pan to allow room for the trans to not bind. I spoke with a tech over at Energy, and he said they are working on a 1/2" shorter cross member mount as this isnt the first time, and it wont be ready for about a year

Transmission lines- your transmission cooler lines from the old TH350, WILL work on the 700r4. You dont really have to do anything but pull on them a little. they fit exact.

Kickdown cable bolt - Some kick down kits dont come with the bolt that mounts into the transmission; so what size is it? its a 6mm x 2.0 thread pitch, just over 1/2" length

Shifter - Most likely youve switched to a floor mount shifter. DOnt forget you need a 4 speed gate plate..

NSS (neutral safety switch and back up lights)- This is a big one, lots of questions here. Your neutral safety switch has (2) purple wires ( One is purple with a white stripe). The reverse light system has a light pink wire, and a light green wire. The pink wire doesnt show up in the car manual until 1977.
When you switch to a floor shifter, you will detach the wires from your neutral safety switch/reverse backup light switch, which is located on top the steering column, under the dash and is shaped sort of like a horseshoe. You run one of the purple wires to the NSS on your new shifter, and the other purple wire to the other contact on the neutral safety switch on your new shifter.
You will do the same with the Reverse back up light solenoid on. Take the light green wire and disconnect it from the old NSS/B/U light,.. and connect it to the new B/U light solenoid/switch on one end. Take the pink wire, disconnect it, and plug it into the other side of the backup light switch/solenoid on the new shifter. Polarity doesnt matter..


I will get into more details on this stuff, but I have my notes in the garage and am tryin to get back to work.
this thread will be updated for you guys

TO BE CONTINUED>....
__________________
1970 El Camino
350 engine, stock for now
trans - 700r4 by PATC 700 HP/torque rating; 2000 stall
3.55 TruTrack
aluminum driveshaft 1350 u joints
front coil over suspension, tubular a-arms
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 02-05-2011, 05:55 PM
Sharp71's Avatar
Sharp71 Sharp71 is offline
Director Region 18 (CA) Participating Member


Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Name: Danny
Location: San Jose, CA
Year: 1971
Model: El Camino
Region: 18(CA)
NECOA #: 352
Posts: 1,957
Sharp71 has a spectacular aura about
Garage
Default

Good stuff Angler,
I'm thinking about crossing over to a 700R. Keep the info coming.


Danny
__________________
Danny
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

SHARP71 - NECOA #352
Director-Region 18
"Not all who wander are lost"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-06-2011, 10:25 AM
kloudryder50's Avatar
kloudryder50 kloudryder50 is offline
Senior Member

Motor Mouth
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Name: Tom
Location: southern Indiana Jasper
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino
Region: 9 (IN,KY,MI)
NECOA #: 14730
Posts: 121
kloudryder50 will become famous soon enough
Default

good info man I am going to do the same to my 70 this spring and really appreciate the info, how about driveshaft length and front yoke ??
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-06-2011, 01:52 PM
steelybill steelybill is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saginaw mi
Year: 1975
Model: El Camino
Region: 9 (IN,KY,MI)
NECOA #: 13978
Posts: 9,439
steelybill has much to be proud of
Default

It's great that you recorded what has to be done, and how to do it Angler. Thanks for the thread.....
__________________
AKA Pila
El Camino resto
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


The Malibu

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2011, 12:20 AM
gilby's Avatar
gilby gilby is offline
Deputy Director Region 18 Participating Member


Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Name: gilbert
Location: upper lake,ca.
Year: 1974
Model: El Camino Classic
Region: 18(CA)
NECOA #: 10426
Posts: 5,211
gilby is of outstanding character
Garage
Default

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-08-2011, 07:55 AM
slingslingbinks's Avatar
slingslingbinks slingslingbinks is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Name: Scott
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino SS
Region: 16(CO,MT,WY,UT)
NECOA #: 18090
Posts: 219
slingslingbinks has a spectacular aura about
Default

Hey Angler. I'v done this swap many year's ago. {Crossmember, Move it back and use origonal mount. No problems with clearence. (cooler lines mate up and may need bent to align up but no biggie. (Kick down bolt. Now it's not realy a kick down, It's the t. v. cable. It is the same but it will take time to tune it. The bolt size seams correct as long as it will thread in and the lenght sound good 2. (Shifter. I left mine on the column and Never worried about the 4 speed gate plate. In the 10 year's i ran the 700 i never once needed to lock the tran's in low range. (drive shaft. The yoke is the same as a th350 and you can send the drive line out and shorten it OR build a new one. I swaped from a switch pitch th400 to the 700 and voted to build a new drive line because i didn't know at the time if i would like the 700. Well it stayed in the Elky and i still have the 400 d/l. Hope that helps you out and I can link you to some good sites to help you figure out the working's and mod's needed to make the t. v. linkage work out for you. it's more than pulling the cable to downshift. It MUST be timed to your throttle opening's. More crutial than many poeple think. C-ya Scott
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-08-2011, 10:22 AM
skinyfisher's Avatar
skinyfisher skinyfisher is offline
Deputy Director Region 6 - 2013 Founders' Award Winner

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 6(FL)
Year: 1969
Model: El Camino SS
Region: 6 (FL)
NECOA #: 3484
Posts: 3,111
skinyfisher has much to be proud of
Garage
Default

No problem on a 69 with trans energy mount seams strange that that as problem on a 70 I thought they were nearly or the same. If you want the the smoothest TV cable set up use Bowtie and the correct plate for the carb to hold all your cables Throt, TV and Cruise control.

Good luck sound s great!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
El Chromeo is a "69" SS 396/350 HP with a stock outside, stock underside, stock inside and a splash of chrome and polish in the engine area.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-08-2011, 11:42 AM
Lemmy's Avatar
Lemmy Lemmy is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Name: Miikka
Location: Finland
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino
Region: 24(EUROPE)
NECOA #: 1487
Posts: 474
Lemmy will become famous soon enough
Default

Wow, this is great info you have gathered Angler! I have been reading about this thing for few months now and there has been lot's if's and buts. Pictures would be great too! Keep up the great work!
__________________
_______________________________________________
Current: 1970 El Camino


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Past: 1972&1971 El Camino
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-08-2011, 05:44 PM
bigjames4xl bigjames4xl is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 5(NC,SC)
Year: 1972
Model: El Camino
Region: 5 (NC,SC)
NECOA #: 2409
Posts: 933
bigjames4xl is a glorious beacon of light
Default

Never heard of the 700 hitting the floorboard on a 3rd gen, not sayin it couldn't be but that's a new one on me.

Lots of info online about his swap. The big pitfalls are the TV cable adjustment and a way to lock up the converter. AND, even the built 700s will not live forever behind an engine with a lot of torque. My mild 454 has burned up the 3rd gear clutches at about 30000 miles on a stage 3 BTO built unit. The first stock 700 I had didn't last 10000 miles.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Ol Paint now livin large in Texas with a new owner
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-08-2011, 05:51 PM
slingslingbinks's Avatar
slingslingbinks slingslingbinks is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Name: Scott
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino SS
Region: 16(CO,MT,WY,UT)
NECOA #: 18090
Posts: 219
slingslingbinks has a spectacular aura about
Default

I had no floor board problems in my 70 Elky. A 3/8 check ball dropped in the lock up solenoid made it lock up with out having any wires ran to the tran's. the T. V. cable was a mistory Untill i found the correct way to set it up.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-09-2011, 12:03 AM
steelybill steelybill is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: saginaw mi
Year: 1975
Model: El Camino
Region: 9 (IN,KY,MI)
NECOA #: 13978
Posts: 9,439
steelybill has much to be proud of
Default

There is an after-market company that says the 2004R is tougher than a 700. Can't remember the name right now, but they build them to take an amazing amount of torque, and torque numbers are just as important as HP numbers, and sometimes even more important when using big block engines.

Not cheap to buy a built 2004R, like around 3500 bucks for a race type, to around 2000 for a street type.
And the 700 uses more power to operate than a 2004R from what I've been reading lately (?)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:38 PM
vortec710's Avatar
vortec710 vortec710 is offline
Junior Member
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Name: Lance
Location: West of Albany, NY
Year: 1970
Model: El Camino
Region: 1 (NY)
NECOA #: 16119
Posts: 4
vortec710 will become famous soon enough
Garage
Cool vortec710

Recently bought a 70 SS 396 with a TH400 + shift kit and a 3:73 12 bolt posi. The 396 has a lumpy cam (unknown specs) that causes the TH to jump like a humped dog when pulled into gear (big cam-stock converter), I have a '86 700 R4 that has been rebuilt with Bow-Tie OD parts by a local trans shop, but I have heard and seen bad news about BT OD's durability, friend put a GM 502/502 in a tube framed 70's Chevy P/U and chewed up the 700-R4 3 times before buying 1 from TCI, which was able to handle the 502, which made 525 HP and 600+ ft/lbs torque. I've bought and am going to have installed a TCI constant pressure valve body in my tranny before it goes into my El Camino, that way the cable only controls the shift point and not the line pressure (so I'm told), but I'm trying to get more info on swapping a
700R4 for a TH400. I'm trying to make up my mind wheither to use a GM crate 440 HP/454 or a ZZ 383 that I have all dynoed and turnkey ready as the 383 makes a little over 430 HP/459 ft./lbs..but I like the thought of a 3:06 first gear and a 0.070 OD with the 3:73 gear over the road with perhaps a wee bit of bracket racing. Really would like to find out more about drive shaft length, yokes and trans mount/crossmember as I also have one of these poly transmission mounts, any solid advice from anyone who has done either a BB or SBC /700R4 into a 70 El Camino would be appreciated
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:23 PM
zach01s's Avatar
zach01s zach01s is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Name: Zach O.
Location: Sierra vista, Bisbee, douglas
Year: 1983
Model: El Camino
Region: 15(AZ,MN)
NECOA #: 17821
Posts: 852
zach01s will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kloudryder50 View Post
good info man I am going to do the same to my 70 this spring and really appreciate the info, how about driveshaft length and front yoke ??

Yolk is the same, the only thing youll have to do is shorten the driveshaft a few inches. usually its just cut the weld on the tube, and cut the difference off the end and re-weld. (usually left best to a driveshaft shop)

If youre not scared to do it yourself remember this: you must time the u-joints end to end exactly. ive done it a bunch of times, ive never had any problems making my own driveshafts but theres a few steps..

1. to cut it loose cut just the weld with a cutoff wheel or angle head grinder, try not to cut into the end cap (some people prefer to make timing marks onm the shaft before you cut it loose, its a good idea so it gives you a reference point to make alligning them when you go back together easier)
2. make sure the tube is squared off good when you cut it, take a file or good knife and de-burr the inside of the tube. use a bandsaw or chopsaw to cut it check for squareness every step, you cant make sure its right too many times. the more the better
3. when you allign the ends and time them together use large squares or straight edges, put the shaft so the shaft side of the caps are facing up and put the squares or straight edges on the machined surface where you drive the cap in and allign so its sitting flat on the flange ( across or perpendicular to the shaft, think sideways) .step back and eyeball the squares on each end of the shaft, reallign the loose end till theyre as close as you can possibly get them ( the longer the straight edge or square is the closer youll be able to allign them)
4. once theyre timed and the flange is driven all the way in (use a ball-peen hammer to tap it in or twist it once its driven in to allign it) tack weld the flange to the tube, once again check to make sure theyre timed together.
weld the shaft with a MIG or arc weld it, do not gas weld it, it wont hold and will just warp everything. when i weld mine i use 6013 rod and just arc weld it, ive never had a problem but the popular choice is to mig weld it. if you choose to arc stitch weld it, dont buzz all the way around it, stitch weld on opposite sides till its all the way around. let it cool.
remember youre welding the end of the tube to the flat surface and edge of the flange, dont try to penetrate through the tube.
5. once the shaft is welded install it in the car, with the rearend off the ground and on jackstands start the car put it in gear and if it (and it most likely will be) off center or wobbley near the weld mark the high spots with a marker or soap stone, take a torch and heat the tube red in an eliptical football shape about half way around the tube, dont heat it up all at once but heat it red and move on the way around, as it cools the metal will contract and take up the wobble of the shaft, repeat this untill its pretty straight. you dont want more than 1/8 to 1/4 inch of shaft wobble when compared to a fixed spot near the side of the shaft the straighter you get the shaft the less vibration you will feel, you cant get it too straight (Youre basically using the vehicle as a lathe to straighten the shaft this way)

I did the 700r4 swap in my elkie. i did a th400 swap as well, every time i made my own driveshaft. i have one for every trans application, and never had a problem, but it may take a few tries to get it right, if youre not sure or dont have the experience id suggest having a shop do it for you. its not worth risking your parts or safety to learn how to do it.
__________________
'83 elCamino. steel crank kieth black forged pistons, pete jackson timing gears, VooDoo cam, World products votrec clone heads, Brodix intake, full msd ignition with Sniper nitrous wet shot system. built vette 700r4 with 2800 stall. 4.11 spooled rear end.

Its aways the second mouse that gets the cheese.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:46 PM
bigjames4xl bigjames4xl is offline
Senior Member

Master Wrench
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 5(NC,SC)
Year: 1972
Model: El Camino
Region: 5 (NC,SC)
NECOA #: 2409
Posts: 933
bigjames4xl is a glorious beacon of light
Default

First gear will be too low with a 3.73 gear. I have the 700r4 with a 3.31 gear and it's as low as I would go.
My mild 454 will light up the MT drag radials and struggle for for bite. Even a 3.55 may be too much. I'm not happy with my BTO 700 but I don't think it's just BTO's problem. Sooner or later it will burn the clutches up. I don't think the constant pressure valve body is the answer. A 4L80 is what it's going to take to live behind even a mild big block. JMHO
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:13 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Logos and trademarks on this site are property of their respective owners. Comments are property of their posters, the rest 2001-2009 by me



Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.