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Old 10-27-2012, 04:35 PM
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Default Drive line vibration

Had my driveshaft balanced today. New yoke and bearings. I still have some vibration, if not more than before. Could the transmission tail shaft bushing be bad and not have any leaks or noticable play? Can this bushing be replaced without dropping the transmission?
I had the wheels balanced at the same time. I am assuming the wheels were done correctly. Is there a way to tell the difference between the wheel out of balance and the drive line?

Jim
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 61Airstream View Post
Can this bushing be replaced without dropping the transmission?
Jim
Yes ! Just had mine change !
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:09 PM
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Lets get more info/ What eng/trans do you have? Yes wheels can balance and still shake as well bent rims. Is it at a certain speed? Maybe you can borrow a friends wheels and tires to see if it stops
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellow_dawg View Post
Lets get more info/ What eng/trans do you have? Yes wheels can balance and still shake as well bent rims. Is it at a certain speed? Maybe you can borrow a friends wheels and tires to see if it stops
Its got a crate 350/290hp with 350/330 cam. 200r4 trans. I checked all the wheels when I first got it and changed one. New tires made by Cooper. I notice it the most at 55 and above.

Jim
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 87next2last1 View Post
Yes ! Just had mine change !
What was yours doing that made you change it. Mind if I ask how involved and expensive the change was?

Jim
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:57 PM
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Tire vibration comes and then gets less with increase in speed. Driveshaft starts buzzing and gets worse.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:36 PM
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I'm not that familiar with the 2004R transmission tail shaft housing. Resealed one of those about 7 years ago, but I have CRS. If it is removable, the bushing & seal are easy enough to replace, and the O ring where it mates to the case.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:35 PM
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A few tools have been made to replace 2004R output bushings. I have 2 types. Without these bushing removers it used to be that you had to tear the trans apart to replace that bushing.
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Old 10-27-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mugzilla View Post
Tire vibration comes and then gets less with increase in speed. Driveshaft starts buzzing and gets worse.
Thank you, took it out and slowing from 75 to 55, it seemed to increase. I'll try it again tomorrow and then get the tires rebalanced.

Jim
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:43 AM
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May not be the issue,but check your engine and trans mounts...One of my engine mounts failed,and i got a vibration anything OVER 60mph.New Taller,mounts fixed that problem..happy motoring
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:48 AM
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A driveline vibration will be much faster than a vibration caused by a tire balance issue. You can usually feel a driveline vibration more through the floor boards, a tire through the seat or steering wheel.
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:36 AM
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Jim, it might also be associated with Pinion Angle. Mine was off, and adjusting it helped. Most of the Pinion angle issue I had was the Trans Mount was perished, and allowed the end of the trans to drop about 1/4". That was enough to throw off the pinon angles. BTW, the stock rear arms have enough play in them to create +/- 1* of pinion angle change. I didn't know that until I read it in the service manual.

From another site:
If there is vibration under acceleration, you need to add more downward pinion angle preload. If the opposite occurs, the vibrations tends to decrease or disappear under acceleration, you need to reduce the downward angle preload.

If the vibration steadily increases with driveshaft speed (either accelerating or decelerating) the symptom is primarily the result of a driveshaft imbalance or yoke runout. Sometimes this yoke runout problem can be improved by rotating the U-joint 180-degrees in the rear end differential yoke.

Driveshaft-related vibrations usually occur at roughly engine speed in high gear. Wheel/axle vibrations usually occur at 1/3 rd engine speed or driveshaft speed because of the differential gearing. To determining whether it is the output of the transmission or the pinion in the differential, change gears when the noise occurs and maintain speed. If the vibration/noise changes in frequency, the source is in the transmission or engine. If the frequency remains the same it is a driveline problem.



Another thing. I had my tires "Road Force" balanced. This method will find and bad spots in the wheel or tire, and suggest "spinning" the tire on the wheel to offset any variations. 2 of my 4 tires needed spinning.

Here's a good checklist for vibrations.
http://csgbenefits.org/camarovibration.pdf
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:36 AM
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Jim, it might also be associated with Pinion Angle. Mine was off, and adjusting it helped. Most of the Pinion angle issue I had was the Trans Mount was perished, and allowed the end of the trans to drop about 1/4". That was enough to throw off the pinon angles. BTW, the stock rear arms have enough play in them to create +/- 1* of pinion angle change. I didn't know that until I read it in the service manual.

From another site:
If there is vibration under acceleration, you need to add more downward pinion angle preload. If the opposite occurs, the vibrations tends to decrease or disappear under acceleration, you need to reduce the downward angle preload.

If the vibration steadily increases with driveshaft speed (either accelerating or decelerating) the symptom is primarily the result of a driveshaft imbalance or yoke runout. Sometimes this yoke runout problem can be improved by rotating the U-joint 180-degrees in the rear end differential yoke.

Driveshaft-related vibrations usually occur at roughly engine speed in high gear. Wheel/axle vibrations usually occur at 1/3 rd engine speed or driveshaft speed because of the differential gearing. To determining whether it is the output of the transmission or the pinion in the differential, change gears when the noise occurs and maintain speed. If the vibration/noise changes in frequency, the source is in the transmission or engine. If the frequency remains the same it is a driveline problem.



Another thing. I had my tires "Road Force" balanced. This method will find and bad spots in the wheel or tire, and suggest "spinning" the tire on the wheel to offset any variations. 2 of my 4 tires needed spinning.

Here's a good checklist for vibrations.
http://csgbenefits.org/camarovibration.pdf
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Old 10-28-2012, 10:40 AM
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Great information, Darbysan, thankyou. I may have more than one problem. I had some vibration before the drive shaft was balanced and I'm noticing it more now. I actually had it balanced twice at two different shops. The first shop balanced it fast and dirty. They spun it and just added a large weight at both ends. They didn't even grind off the original factory weight. In this condition, it was vibrating really badly and we added the hose clamps at the front to smooth it out somewhat. The second shop did a really nice job. They removed all the weights and checked the entired shaft for roundness. They found at least four places where the shaft was not true from the factory. They heated these humps with a torch and cooled them very quickly with water. They did all this while it was on the lathe. In one 12" section, they used a disk grinder as the shaft spun to smooth it out.
They were explaining to me that these shafts are not very true right out of the factory. You don't feel it when the car is new because all the bearings and bushing are so tight.

At any rate, i think I have a nice straight, well balanced drive shaft now. Since I don't notice the vibration much on acceleration i may have to reduce the downward pinion angle as you described.
However, I don't understand why I would feel more vibration after the driveshaft is balanced so well.
There doesn't seem to be any movement or play at the slip yoke. Do you think that the effect of wrong pinion angle would be more pronounced with the shaft balanced?

Jim
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:01 AM
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Shaft balance shouldn't have any affect on the pinion vibration. You can flip the driveshaft 180* at the pinion yoke- that sometimes helps. Also, make sure you are not over-tightening the yoke strap bolts. 15 Ft Lbs is the spec. Too tight, and the cups can restrict the bearings.
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