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Discussion Starter #1
Another question for the electrical experts; After getting my elky running I noticed that I have to rev the engine up a lot to get the GEN light to go out. Once it goes out it stays out till I shut it down and start it again. Second issue and I think the most important is that while checking the under hood wiring after she was running for a few minutes I noticed that the red wire coming off the back of the alternator was VERY hot. Checking futher I noticed the alternator itself was hot and the charge wire from the junction block to the battery was also hot. My cruck is a 59 and has the original wiring. The engine has been replaced with a 1967 6 cylinder and has a 3 wire alternator (not sure what model yet). I just checked and it has an internal voltage regulator, however the wiring to the old regulator is still hooked up. Could this be causing the overheating of the wiring and the alternator? what other problems might I expect if that is wrong and how can I fix it. I was under the impression that the external voltage regulator is not needed when there is an internal one.
 

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I'm no expert, but internal regulator should mean that the external is NOT required, I don't know why it would hurt, but Why not just shed the weight and the additional fire hazard? Personally, I'd rip out the alternator, wiring, and regulator, and replace it with brand new stuff. 70 bucks from autozone and you'll be all set on that front.
 

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I'm no expert, but internal regulator should mean that the external is NOT required, I don't know why it would hurt, but Why not just shed the weight and the additional fire hazard? Personally, I'd rip out the alternator, wiring, and regulator, and replace it with brand new stuff. 70 bucks from autozone and you'll be all set on that front.
Thanks for the input Mike. Not sure I completely understand your comment about ripping things out. I probably didn't mention that the alternator w/internal regulator ARE new. At least they had just put installed before I bought the car. I think the problem is that they are wired up wrong and that is causing things to overheat. I do want to replace the wiring as I don't think it's sized right for the output of the alternator. The Autozone guys in my little hick town don't know how to rewire when replacing an external regulator with an internal one. In fact most of them don't know what an external regulator is. http://elcaminocentral.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
 

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....X2....Remove the old voltage regulator, and run the gen light wire to pos.1 on the alt...:dontknow:

:beer:
 

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2x gilby definitely want to shed the external regulator. You also want to check & clean all the wire ends and contact points including the battery terminals. A corroded or loose connection will cause heat to build up.
This may sound crazy but I swear it works when your making up your electrical connections even chassis grounds and battery terminals put a dab of Nickel or Copper anti seize. I'll tell ya the corrosion will stop and the electric conduction will improve.
 

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Yea, the alternator thing was explained to me by a guy that rebuilds alternators. Until you rev the engine to up over 1200 rpm or so it wont draw a load so it aids in the warm up of the motor by not adding drag on the cold engine. Once you rev past that point the alt. kicks in and does it's job. It will make juice until you shut it down.
I would also agree that if your alt. has an internal regulator the external one is not needed. To be on the safe side I would bring it by an alternator rebuilding shop and have them look at it and confirm things. That would at least give you piece of mind knowing your not going to burn the 59 down.
Ang.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I still need some help with my alternator/regulator rewiring. I have attached some pics that might help you understand what I am dealing with. It looks like a hybrid wiring scheme that I don’t think is going to function properly, or maybe it will but is not necessary for the function with the newer alternator with built in regulator.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/dryoak/Cars/009_zps691e8d60.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/dryoak/Cars/008_zpsaa59e218.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/dryoak/Cars/007_zps142d2326.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/dryoak/Cars/005_zps557afe3b.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee163/dryoak/Cars/004_zps21ba7075.jpg

As you may be able to see all the wires coming off the alternator have splices in them and some have multiple splices, including the red wire. All the splices go from one wire size to another. This is the place where I am getting most of the hot wires when the engine is running. The red wire goes to the junction block, the two smaller wires go to the voltage regulator. The junction block has a small red wire that goes to the voltage regulator, a red wire to the battery +, a wire (not sure of color) going to the horn relay, and another heavier red wire which I think goes to the wiring harness bulkhead connector, either for main cabin power or headlight switch. I think more than likely the cabin main power.

So here are my questions. Of the two small wires coming off the alternator ( blue and white or tan or faded yellow) which is the one to go to the gen light and which is the voltage sensing wire. Shouldn’t the voltage sensing wire be connected to the junction block main terminal to eliminate the regulator?? Of the 4 wires connected to the regulator, I know the blue wire goes to the alternator and the red wire goes to the junction block. I have no idea what the other two are but I suspect that one is the headlight switch and the other may be a ground. Can you guys help with this.

I want to remove the regulator as I don’t think it’s needed. What I think I need to do is remove the blue wire from the regular and connect it to the junction block. Completely remove the red wire from the junction block to the regulator. Id the headlight switch wire and connect it to the junction block (using fusible link) replace the wire from the junction block to the horn relay with a fusible link. Id the black wire on the regulator and do whatever needs to be done with it. I’m also wondering if I should replace all these wires with new ones of correct wire size. Which BTW I don’t know what they should be, especially those from the alternator to the junction block and junction block to battery.

Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.
 

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I'm by no means an electrical expert I've mostly learned as I went. But I'd say you have a new style alternator spliced in to an old system. Which is probably obvious to you at this point.
As far as the voltage sensing wire, it's one of the two in the two wire white plug on top of the of the alt.. One of them should put out a solid 12-14 volts the other one is the sensor. It will probably run to the horn relay. GM used that as a main connector/12v supply to the rest of the car.
Ang.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
the connector on that alternator is NOT the normal plug for the internal regulator..
it should look like this..http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4973100758991133&pid=1.7&w=256&h=188&c=7&rs=1
JJ, I'm a little confused by the term "normal". Do you mean normal for El Camino/Chevy (delco-remy) or all internal regulators. I've done searches for the connections for internal regulators and there are lots of them. Depends on the brand and model and even year of the alternator's/regulator's I looked at. I'm not sure what brand mine is but I didn't think it made any difference if it had the right outputs (function of the 3 wires). Am I wrong about this and should I be concerned and think about replacing this component (not cheap) as well as upgrading the wiring??

Thanks for your input!
 

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JJ, I'm a little confused by the term "normal". Do you mean normal for El Camino/Chevy (delco-remy) or all internal regulators. I've done searches for the connections for internal regulators and there are lots of them. Depends on the brand and model and even year of the alternator's/regulator's I looked at. I'm not sure what brand mine is but I didn't think it made any difference if it had the right outputs (function of the 3 wires). Am I wrong about this and should I be concerned and think about replacing this component (not cheap) as well as upgrading the wiring??

Thanks for your input!
..the plug that is on yours, is not right for the alt your running.

..Alt 1 is internal voltage reg where as alt 2 is external,so,what you have is a external connector (2) and you need a internal connector (1)...:dontknow:

:beer:
 

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this is the normal plug for external regulator alternator,,
just like the plug on your alternator,,
but the rear case on your alt does not look like an original external reg. alt... in gilbys pic.

also,, I think I have seen a internal reg. alt. with the old external reg. plug for sale,, for the hard core keep it all original guys..

one way to do the swap is this kit.. it keeps all the original wiring..
http://nnnova.com/p2017/1963-1972-N...n-Kit,-External-Regulator-T/product_info.html

link to diagrams/pics of other swaps..
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gm+external+regulator+alternator+PIC&FORM=HDRSC2
 

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If the connector connects to the plug on the alternator PROPERLY, it doesn't really matter what it looks like. It just connects wires to "something". NOW, if the connectors don't face the proper way, then it's wrong from the word go, and won't carry the proper load it needs to carry. Just realize that the big, red wire is the actual conveyer of all the juice going to the battery to keep it charged. Your wiring is a bigger rat's nest than mine, but my battery is in the bed of the truck, and all the connectors for ground and hot go to two places on the inner fender well. Plus, that's where all my relays are located for the lights and electric fans. This is just to let you know that there are others who don't have the neatest setup, also.:sigh:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
..the plug that is on yours, is not right for the alt your running.

..Alt 1 is internal voltage reg where as alt 2 is external,so,what you have is a external connector (2) and you need a internal connector (1)...:dontknow:
http://www.elcaminocentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8138&stc=1&d=1375976660
:beer:
OK, JJ and Gilby. I now have this thing figured out and want to thank you both for getting me started in the right direction. I removed the alternator from the car and took a close look at it and even took it apart. What I found was a dummy regulator. I called my local generator guy and he explained to me that in 1972 and maybe a little before that Delco-Remy started manufacturing the case for the internal regulator but used a external connector in those cases. He said that Delco started using the internal regulator in that case in 1973. So even though my case is like the one in ALT1 and NOT like ALT2 it still doesn't have an internal regulator. This difference is what has had me confused. My Gen/alt guy offered to convert my alternator to an internal regulator for me ($30) but said it would be a one wire system. Any advice on that. I read somewhere (MAD electrical I think) that 3 wire is much better than one wire.

Thanks to you all for your response and help.
 

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..I think its ok to go a one wire system,if you look at the wiring diagrams on the alt, most of them are "one" wire system. Running a three wire means you need to run an external reg,so, you do have a choice to pick from..:dontknow:


. ...1 wire....................3 wire


..( me,personally,I go with the "one" wire. it will look nice and less wires cluttering the engine bay .:bigups: )
:beer:
 

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wtg Don
I agree a 3 wire internal regulator setup is better,, in your situation, not a lot of load and needing to do something
about the wiring, splices, its quick and will give you time to think about how to wire it up right, without to much worry..:2gunsfiring:
 

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:agreed:
 
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