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prior to getting my new lines in place, do i just empty my old brake fluid and let it run completely dry since im replacing everything? i got the prop valve so im replacing it all now
As Karadjgne said, since you're replacing everything, you're essentially starting from scratch so there's no point in draining or bleeding anything before hand. Just be prepared as you undo the old lines, you'll have fluid dripping out. If you don't know, brake fluid is not good for paint (or your skin) wear gloves and have plenty of rags on hand. I usually have a water source nearby to wet the rags and dilute any spills. Wiping with a dry rag still leaves some residue which can still discolor or mar things.

The system will be mostly empty (air) so it might take awhile to push the fluid through that first circuit/rear right caliper. The others will go a little quicker since the central part of the system will now have fresh fluid. As Caballero Joe mentioned, have plenty of brake fluid on hand, i'd get at least three of the quart sized bottles.

To fill the system, you may consider simply gravity bleeding, which is opening up the bleeder valve and let time and gravity pull the fluid through. This is the surest way to not let air back into the system but is the slowest.

Here are a couple of links for some more perspective. FIrst one describes gravity bleeding, the second is a Monte SS owner doing essentially what you're doing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
It sounds like you're replacing pretty much the entire brake system (master, hard lines, flex lines). The only thing you didn't mention was the proportioning valve which you might as well replace. The only old fluid would be whatever's left in your calipers. Which would be the first thing to leave your system when you bleed.

I did a lnlineTube stainless replacement on my 71 A-bodies (Chevelle and Elco), 87 is in queue once I get around to it. Didn't have any fitment or sealing issues outside of the pass side front of the Chevelle where it goes over the frame—the fit is just a little snug but that's prob due to extra large headers.

I'd recommend getting all your lines in place first, then replacing your booster and master.

Prior to starting, shoot some penetrant oil on the fittings and let them soak an overnight or two.

As others have mentioned bench bleed to get all the air out of your master, or as much as you can before install. If you do the prop valve, do it with the lines.

Then full bleed. Keep your lid cracked open. Right rear, Left rear, Right front, Left front. One wheel at a time, connect the bleeder bottle and crack the bleeder valve open 1/4 to half turn enough to get the fluid flowing but not too open as you'll risk air going back in through the bleeder screw. Keep an eye on the master so you don't run dry. If it runs dry, you'll have to start over. Do it until the fluid is clear and there are no more bubbles coming through the hose. I do about 25 pumps for the RR, 20 LR, 15 RF, 10 LF.

If you can't get the rears to evacuate, the prop valve might have reset as imbalance in fluid will make the valve think there was a catastrophic failure in the circuit. On your year valve, there's a reset button that will open it up again, on earlier models you need a plastic pin.

I would suggest getting this or something like this to make bleeding easier:

It's essentially a bottle, hose with a one way check valve. They sell a chintzier version at your local auto parts establishments but this is more robust and has more capacity which you'll need doing the whole system. You can make your own with a discarded soda bottle and hose. Check YouTube for a number of videos on that. You can also get a vacuum pump but honestly i think it over complicates things plus the attachment for older cars doesn't work very well. I have a Motive one but use the bleeder bottle even with my modern cars.

And also this or equivalent for the bench bleed:

It was a little daunting for me the first time but these were the things i ran into. That bleeder bottle made it super simple. Good luck.
how do you bench bleed the prop valve i can only find tutorials for the master cylinder?
 

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how do you bench bleed the prop valve i can only find tutorials for the master cylinder?
There's no bleeding the prop valve on its own— it will bleed as you are bleeding all four wheels.
 

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1987 GMC Caballero, 350, Holley Sniper EFI, 200-4R
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Your new proportioning valve should include instructions on how to reset it once the system is bled properly. You have to do the system bleeding before you can reset the valve.
Youtube may have a video or two that may help
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Bench bleed the master cylinder BEFORE installing it. Its easier and more effective that way.

You bought stainless steel lines. So did I and regretted it. I should have stayed with mild steel because the harder stainless steel was quite difficult to get each segment connector to seal for no leaks.

I eventually gave up on the back axel and went with mild steel after the tip of the line flare at a wheel cylinder broke off. Stainless is quite brittle and less malleable than mild steel.

Rick

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
the rear axle was a pain, the worst one forsure, but i got all the SS lines in. now i just have to see if they have any issues with leaks
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
It sounds like you're replacing pretty much the entire brake system (master, hard lines, flex lines). The only thing you didn't mention was the proportioning valve which you might as well replace. The only old fluid would be whatever's left in your calipers. Which would be the first thing to leave your system when you bleed.

I did a lnlineTube stainless replacement on my 71 A-bodies (Chevelle and Elco), 87 is in queue once I get around to it. Didn't have any fitment or sealing issues outside of the pass side front of the Chevelle where it goes over the frame—the fit is just a little snug but that's prob due to extra large headers.

I'd recommend getting all your lines in place first, then replacing your booster and master.

Prior to starting, shoot some penetrant oil on the fittings and let them soak an overnight or two.

As others have mentioned bench bleed to get all the air out of your master, or as much as you can before install. If you do the prop valve, do it with the lines.

Then full bleed. Keep your lid cracked open. Right rear, Left rear, Right front, Left front. One wheel at a time, connect the bleeder bottle and crack the bleeder valve open 1/4 to half turn enough to get the fluid flowing but not too open as you'll risk air going back in through the bleeder screw. Keep an eye on the master so you don't run dry. If it runs dry, you'll have to start over. Do it until the fluid is clear and there are no more bubbles coming through the hose. I do about 25 pumps for the RR, 20 LR, 15 RF, 10 LF.

If you can't get the rears to evacuate, the prop valve might have reset as imbalance in fluid will make the valve think there was a catastrophic failure in the circuit. On your year valve, there's a reset button that will open it up again, on earlier models you need a plastic pin.

I would suggest getting this or something like this to make bleeding easier:

It's essentially a bottle, hose with a one way check valve. They sell a chintzier version at your local auto parts establishments but this is more robust and has more capacity which you'll need doing the whole system. You can make your own with a discarded soda bottle and hose. Check YouTube for a number of videos on that. You can also get a vacuum pump but honestly i think it over complicates things plus the attachment for older cars doesn't work very well. I have a Motive one but use the bleeder bottle even with my modern cars.

And also this or equivalent for the bench bleed:

It was a little daunting for me the first time but these were the things i ran into. That bleeder bottle made it super simple. Good luck.
thanks this was really helpful, especially the part about resetting the proportioning valve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
It sounds like you're replacing pretty much the entire brake system (master, hard lines, flex lines). The only thing you didn't mention was the proportioning valve which you might as well replace. The only old fluid would be whatever's left in your calipers. Which would be the first thing to leave your system when you bleed.

I did a lnlineTube stainless replacement on my 71 A-bodies (Chevelle and Elco), 87 is in queue once I get around to it. Didn't have any fitment or sealing issues outside of the pass side front of the Chevelle where it goes over the frame—the fit is just a little snug but that's prob due to extra large headers.

I'd recommend getting all your lines in place first, then replacing your booster and master.

Prior to starting, shoot some penetrant oil on the fittings and let them soak an overnight or two.

As others have mentioned bench bleed to get all the air out of your master, or as much as you can before install. If you do the prop valve, do it with the lines.

Then full bleed. Keep your lid cracked open. Right rear, Left rear, Right front, Left front. One wheel at a time, connect the bleeder bottle and crack the bleeder valve open 1/4 to half turn enough to get the fluid flowing but not too open as you'll risk air going back in through the bleeder screw. Keep an eye on the master so you don't run dry. If it runs dry, you'll have to start over. Do it until the fluid is clear and there are no more bubbles coming through the hose. I do about 25 pumps for the RR, 20 LR, 15 RF, 10 LF.

If you can't get the rears to evacuate, the prop valve might have reset as imbalance in fluid will make the valve think there was a catastrophic failure in the circuit. On your year valve, there's a reset button that will open it up again, on earlier models you need a plastic pin.

I would suggest getting this or something like this to make bleeding easier:

It's essentially a bottle, hose with a one way check valve. They sell a chintzier version at your local auto parts establishments but this is more robust and has more capacity which you'll need doing the whole system. You can make your own with a discarded soda bottle and hose. Check YouTube for a number of videos on that. You can also get a vacuum pump but honestly i think it over complicates things plus the attachment for older cars doesn't work very well. I have a Motive one but use the bleeder bottle even with my modern cars.

And also this or equivalent for the bench bleed:

It was a little daunting for me the first time but these were the things i ran into. That bleeder bottle made it super simple. Good luck.
I'd bought a SS pump to carb line from summit. Had nothing but issues with getting it not to leak because there's no forgiveness at the flares, if it's off dead center by even the slightest angle or amount, buh bye seal, it's going to leak, even with just 5lbs of pressure behind it. Brakes are much higher pressure under loads.

Went back to OEM mild steel tube, not a drip since. SS only works when both sides are SS, so you can apply the right amount of torque pressure to the fittings. If one side is brass, like with a carb seat, and sitting in a pot-metal carb, it's a no-good situation. Calipers are no different.
Buy plenty of brake fluid. Ensure you bench bleed your master cylinder before installing it.
Be very careful about getting brake fluid on painted surfaces. I purchased a 1 person bleeding kit at NAPA, cheap. I was skeptical at first, but found it works very well.
My system was full of old cruddy fluid also, that I wasn't willing to trust my life to. I replaced master cylinder, booster, proportioning valve, both front steel lines, both front flex lines, the flex line running to the rear axle, front calipers and did a rear disc conversion with all new parts. Like you, I wanted to flush all of the old cruddy fluid out, but it had to be controlled.
After installing your new master cylinder bleed from the passenger rear, to drivers rear, to passenger front and finally drivers front. I kept working that right rear bleeder until I got clear, clean fluid out. I continued the process on both rear sides until I was satisfied. I couldn't figure out another way to control where the fluid would go. In my case only the line from the proportioning valve to the rear flex line had old fluid in it.
hey guys I need some help. so I replaced everything in the braking system, I got the steel lines in without too much trouble, bled the back brakes fine but the front would not bleed, there was fluid coming through them but when i pumped the brakes it would not shoot through the tube, instead just leaked out the treads of the hole where the nipple screws into the caliper, but if I tightened the nipple any more even by the slightest degree then it would block off all fluid. i also noticed if i untighten it any amount at all even from being fully torqued, it goes completely loose and the fluid leaks. i tried resetting the proportioning valve by pressing the button on the side but it didnt change anything and eventually the pedal went soft. so now im thinking what the hell. these were 200 dollar powdercoated calipers from summit with good reviews, I did not overtighten them, I was extremely cautious of that, but if they are both leaking at the nipple they clearly are both defective correct? they wont tighten anymore then how they came, they came fully tightened into the caliper, all i did was loosen it a little and return it to the exact same position when trying to bleed the brakes and after trying to pump the breaks while working on the front they are now leaking constantly even when fully screwed in which i dont thick it was doing before i started trying to bleed the fronts. i assuming this is why my front wouldnt bleed and why my pedal went soft correct? will i have to order new callipers?
also some nincompoop at AutoZone put a bottle of dot 4 mixed in with the dot 3, so 1 out of the 3 bottles i bought was dot 4 not dot 3 and of course i didnt notice until flushing almost the whole system so now i have to reflush it. whats the best way to drain or reflush the whole system? I assume I need to bench bleed the master cylinder again. then for the lines could I just crack the nipples open and pump the brakes until the fluid clears out ( dont know how id do that since my pedal is to the floor), i suppose it would make sense to bench bleed the master and then reinstall it and just bleed each wheel again to pump out the bad fluid but since the new fluid is the same color i dont know how i would know once i made it to the new fluid. advice on that would be appreciated.
 

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You didn't happen to convert to Wilwood calipers did you? Or do your bleeder valves look like this:

When I upgraded to bolt on style Wilwood D52 calipers I ran into the same issue. Couldn't figure out why my front brakes wouldn't bleed—nothing could come out or they'd be turned out so loose, they'd leak through the threads. Called up my mechanics buddies, called up Wilwood Tech Support. No answers. After endless repetitve searches on the Google, i realized the valve is two piece and i was loosening the valve body, not the bleeder (black) portion of the valve. Once i figured that out, everything was fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Could the bleeder and supply fitting be mixed up? Banjo fittings? You need two copper washers for each. A picture would help.
Tom
ill take some pictures on my phone and upload them here in a second. but no, the bleeder valve and supply fitting are not mixed up. I removed the old caliper with the hose still attached to use as a reference and the fitting for the supply hose has a barrier around it to stop it from turning in directions its not suppose too.
I did reinspect my car right now and I realized I actually did have some leaks in the back, a lot of my stainless steel lines and hoses were leaking, I just didnt notice because the fluid was running down the lines and didnt start dripping until this morning. I tightened the hoses and lines up a little more until they were real tight (i heard SS requires more torque than mild steel to get it to seal) and the leaks appear to have stopped but I will keep my eye on them. I assume this is part of why my pedal went to the floor and my fronts wouldnt bleed at all.
This made me question, how tight are the bleeder valves suppose to be? this made me wonder if maybe the bleeder valves just need to be very snug as well in order to seal and they were just leaking out of the treads because they were unscrewed too loose. but I heard that bleeder valves are not suppose to be so tight they require to be "snapped off", the bleeders came with the calipers so I assume they are just mild steel but it is possible they are SS too, I dont want to accidently strip the treads however because that might ruin my chances of returning them if I need too but I cant think of anything else, they are already pretty dang snug as is, but if I really wanted too I could turn it 1/8 more, I'm not sure if thats a good idea though beings they are already pretty tight, they are about 1/8 of a turn past the point of resistance right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
You didn't happen to convert to Wilwood calipers did you? Or do your bleeder valves look like this:

When I upgraded to bolt on style Wilwood D52 calipers I ran into the same issue. Couldn't figure out why my front brakes wouldn't bleed—nothing could come out or they'd be turned out so loose, they'd leak through the threads. Called up my mechanics buddies, called up Wilwood Tech Support. No answers. After endless repetitve searches on the Google, i realized the valve is two piece and i was loosening the valve body, not the bleeder (black) portion of the valve. Once i figured that out, everything was fine.
nope they are oe style calipers but aftermarket, they weren't some cheap ones though, I inspected the nipple and they are not that style, they are indeed a single piece like oem. im uploading pictures right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
SS flares are the worst to get tight. I had to tighten and loosen my SS fuel line at the carb 5 times to seal the flare fitting.
Tom
i dont know if the nipple is SS but it could be. because its the same company I got my stainless steel flex hoses from so they make a lot of stainless steel hardware, is there anyway to identify if it is SS without it having any markings? then I would be comfortable tightening it more without worrying of it stripping and ruining my return if I must, i checked the website and it does not say
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
here's a picture, the picture gets turned upside down when I upload it and I dont know how to fix it, but in real life the bleeder is at the top and the stainless steel flex hose is at the bottom, its not upside down like in the picture. If you run your finger underneath the treads of the bleeder valve then your finger will be covered in brake fluid, it does not seem to drip though its a semi small leak. I removed the valves and checked for stripped threads but the threads look perfect in the caliper and on the nipple.
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Everything needs to be tight. Are they 2 piece like post 32. If so tighten the big nut then hold the big nut and loosen the small one. Careful because if fluid is leaking out air might be leaking in.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
also this is how AutoZone slipped a bottle of dot 4 on the dot 3 shelf without me knowing :confused: I should of double checked I suppose but I'm going to ask them to replace the bottles. after I bench bleed the master cylinder again how will I know when I pushed all the dot 4 mixed fluid out since it is the same color? do I just pump it so many times that I'm positive there's no way there could be any left?
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