[HKDUP87]

I'm pulling codes 43/45 after disconnecting battery and driving. What I have tried so far is.
I had my timing with dist. plug off first set at 8 BTDC then re plugged into the dist. and she's running good except under load to me feels like it's not giving me all my power at normal freeway driving up hill plus I'm pulling these codes. I changed my timing to 6 BTDC and she doesn't like that at starts from a dead stop it's bogging down a little. When I did my 305/350 swap I used or bought 305 sensors for the new motor and the carb. has been rebuilt with a new fuel pump also. I installed a new knock sensor during the swap and it could be bad and I cant get the old one off the motor. I've checked for vacuum leaks with a unlight propane torch and didn't get any change in the motor sound if it was sucking in the propane. I also changed the exhaust manifold gaskets just in case and re-tightened all the bolts on the motor after the first 500 miles. My ECM is working because I can clear it then pull new codes after reconnecting the battery and taking it on the freeway and city streets.I'm idling great and get plenty of power from a stop at 8 BTDC unplugged then reconnected plug to the dist. but the power just doesn't equal the extra 100 hp I got after the swap under load driving up hill on the freeway. I have checked all the elect.and hose lines going to the sensors and motor and the CO2 sensor is also for a 305 and its less than a year old. One other thing my gas tank seems to hold pressure it's the original and I did put a new canister a year ago but when I take the cap off to refill I'm pretty sure it releases pressure almost everytime if not always.

The only sensor more than a year old is the ECS and I myself have never replaced it but the shop over the years could have.

Sorry if this is long but I've been here long enough to know info is the most important thing to give when you can't be here live to see what's going on.
So what do you guys/gals think:dontknow::dontknow:
Robert

 

[lilbaggie]

If you're using a 305 knock sensor that could be part of the problem—the 305 and 350 knock sensors don't interchange. I don't think the ESC interchanges either.

 

[woody31]

Morning bro. When you started this swap i was afraid you would have issues, looks like I was right. First esc does not swap over.
second you need a knock sensor from a 5.7 truck with a throttle body injection. Do not use teflon tape or any sealer of any kind.
The sensor makes its ground with the block when you screw it in.
And last try running the 6* with the right sensor.:beer:

 

[Bobby78]

Code 43 is ECS Electronic Spark Control (failure)

Code 45 O2 Sensor (Rich)

Pretty sure code 45 the rich condition is coming from from your spark problem. It means the fuel mixture in the exhaust is rich as it passes the O2 sensor.
So fix the spark problem and the O2 code 45 should clear.

 

[HKDUP87]

Code 43 is ECS Electronic Spark Control (failure)

Code 45 O2 Sensor (Rich)

Pretty sure code 45 the rich condition is coming from from your spark problem. It means the fuel mixture in the exhaust is rich as it passes the O2 sensor.
So fix the spark problem and the O2 code 45 should clear.

OK that's what I was thinking. I made sure the knock sensor plug was clean and not broken somewhere in the line and i put the timing back to 8 BTDC and cleared the ECM AND GET THE ESC I KNOW THAT'S THE ONLY SWITCH I DIDN'T CHANGE FOR WHAT WHO KNOWS. Could be a bad knock sensor rock had it with 4-stars but it was only like $12.00 or cheaper and their stuff is all surplus but it looked great even the box.
THAT'S THE SWITCH MOUNTED ON THE BRACKET ON THE PASSENGER SIDE PLASTIC INNER FENDER WELL CORRECT THERE'S ALSO A RELAY ON THE BRACKET BUT IT'S FINE.

THANKS DUDE!!!!!!!

 

[Bobby78]

Robert
I made a mistake above. Looking at V6 codes.
Here's the 5.0 V8...
http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/86-88_50H_c.shtml

Code 43 is "Knock Sensor" But that could throw the O2 sensor code too I think when it detects a "rich" condition

 

[Bobby78]

OK Not trusting info on the internet, I dug out my 87 GM Pontiac service manual. Code 43 states for "Hard Failure" (not intermittent) scan displays knock retard in numbers that are constantly changing (0-255) Faulty ESC circuit.

It also states "Code 43 Electronic Spark Control (ESC) retard signal for too long a time causes retard in EST signal.
So maybe the Knock Sensor triggers the ESC code 43 then the O2 code 45

 

[HKDUP87]

Robert
I made a mistake above. Looking at V6 codes.
Here's the 5.0 V8...
http://www.troublecodes.net/GM/86-88_50H_c.shtml

Code 43 is "Knock Sensor" But that could throw the O2 sensor code too I think when it detects a "rich" condition

This is why everything is jacked up. I just went online to Auto zone just to get the number for the ESC they show part # ECS105 then i go to Oreilly's they show for my truck cat# ESC116 and they have it so I go back to Auto Zone to double check and they show the ESC 116 does not fit my truck. What the FFFFF do these companies do. that's total bull.

OK now that's over the knock sensor i should use with my ECM is the 305 correct? That's what it's programmed for correct?
The article I posted on the motor swap from a well known magazine and mechanic said all the parts stay the same. I wouldn't think anyone would let something like that be printed. people here keep telling me is wrong and it's right:dontknow: Yoiu did the same swap correct plus Rich that helped did the exact same motor swap as mine and the 305 sensors has his motor dialed in. I take that back he doesn't have the computer.

 

[HKDUP87]

OK Not trusting info on the internet, I dug out my 87 GM Pontiac service manual. Code 43 states for "Hard Failure" (not intermittent) scan displays knock retard in numbers that are constantly changing (0-255) Faulty ESC circuit.

It also states "Code 43 Electronic Spark Control (ESC) retard signal for too long a time causes retard in EST signal.
So maybe the Knock Sensor triggers the ESC code 43 then the O2 code 45

Where would you start or just change both if i can fricken find out the correct one. I hope its readable on my old ESC.
Robert

I just read that again the domino affect? I'm going for a ride and check the codes again after making sure the plug was tight and changed the timing before i go ballistic and just drink and don't worry about it .

 

[HKDUP87]

I can't unplug one at a time then reset the ECM to find out the bad one can you?oke:

Also Woody I'm not saying your wrong but with a 50/50 chance i will pick the wrong sensor for sure.

 

[lilbaggie]

If you swapped over to a 350 then you need a 350 knock sensor even if the ccc setup was originally for a 305.

 

[HKDUP87]

If you swapped over to a 350 then you need a 350 knock sensor even if the ccc setup was originally for a 305.

O.K I can live with that so can I look up a 1978 El Camino with a 350 and get that sensor? Will the co2 and spark sensors work from the 305?
Thanks.


I not trying to beat the dead horse but what an I missing here. Other's have done it but it not for me.?



Simple Crate

I have a daily driver ’87 El Camino with a tired 305. I’d like to put a crate 350 in it. Nothing radical, just a stocker with maybe 200-250 hp. It also must pass California smog. I remember reading an article (four to five years ago) about a crate motor with an Edelbrock manifold, carb, and a 305 cam, but I no longer have the magazine. Any suggestions? Thanks,
Doug Cole
Via email
Doug, for a simple crate 350 engine swap we recommend going with a factory GM Goodwrench crate engine. GM has been offering this engine forever. They were originally called the Target Master Crate engine and were renamed when GM started branding itself Goodwrench. GM has built millions of these engines over the years, and we’ve used them for truck and passenger car replacement engines, and whipped them on the dyno for run after run, without even a whimper. Give our good friend Ken Casey a call at the new John Elway Chevrolet (800.345.5744) for pricing and freight for a 350 Goodwrench engine (PN 10067353). This is a direct replacement engine for ’71-85 applications. This will drop right into your ’Elco and all you’ll need to pick up is a standard-balance 153-tooth flexplate (PN 471529). Yes, you will need to truck the engine out from Colorado, but Casey is very competitive with his pricing, we’re guessing under $2,000 for a brand-new engine. All this and a factory warranty on the engine for two years and 50,000 miles!
As you said, you had a story of a crate with a simple camshaft swap and manifold. We’d go with an Edelbrock Performer EGR manifold (PN 3701), and the matching camshaft (PN 3702). This camshaft shaft specs out at 194/214 duration at 0.050-inch tappet lift, 0.396/0.442-inch max lift, and is ground on 112 centers. You will notice that this is a very short camshaft. It was originally developed back in 1985 to work in the LG4 305s, which were computer controlled. Oh yeah, that’s the engine that’s in your ’Elco. This camshaft will work in concert with your factory computer calibration and pass emissions in the state of California. The short nature of this camshaft will produce great throttle response and make outstanding slow-speed torque. The engine will make strong power to 5,000 rpm and produce about 250 hp through the stock exhaust manifolds and cat.
If you wish to step up to headers, you could also add the Edelbrock TES system, which is emissions legal in California and will boost your peak horsepower on this package by around 20 hp. The TES system for your LG4 305-equipped El Camino is PN 68783. This kit will bolt right in to your El Camino’s factory 21/4-inch catalytic converter. If you wish to step up the exhaust to the high-flow Corvette four-bolt–style converter, go with PN 68793. This, in conjunction with a nice after-cat exhaust, will round out your emissions-legal engine swap nicely.
We know this engine won’t turn the world with its sheer power, but it will give you a great daily driver that will get decent gas mileage and produce over 100 hp more than the stock 305! This will make a big difference in the fun factory with your ’Elco. Good luck! CHP
Sources: edelbrock.com, elwaydealers.com

__________________

 

[Bobby78]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. The knock sensor is sending a bad signal to the ESC and that's causing a rich condition triggering the O2 sensor code.

 

[HKDUP87]

Yeah that's what I'm thinking. The knock sensor is sending a bad signal to the ESC and that's causing a rich condition triggering the O2 sensor code.

Got to start somewhere. Can i use a 1978 350 elco to pick it out.?

 

[Bobby78]

78 doesn't have a computer! That's another reason I love mine!

 

[HKDUP87]

78 doesn't have a computer! That's another reason I love mine!

Check this out how to see if the sensor is working? Is a chevy 350 generic just find a car/truck that is computer controlled and it's the one i need ?

structions
1
Unlock the hood and prop it open. Connect the red clamp on the timing light to the positive terminal on the battery, then connect the black clamp to the negative terminal.

2
Clamp the spark plug clamp around the No. 1 spark plug wire, which on a GM V8 engine is the front right spark plug wire. Turn the vehicle on and let it run.

Sponsored Links

Local Auto Repair
Domestic & Foreign Auto Repair Oil Change, Smog Check, Call Today!
www.actionautocypress.com
3
Shine the timing light at the bottom of the engine block and locate the timing indicator. Note where the engine is timed mentally, noting where the mark hits the indicator.

4
Strike the side of the engine with the hammer while shining the timing light on the timing indicator at the bottom of the engine block. Look to see if the timing slows down on the timing light. If it does, then the knock sensor is good. If not, it needs to be replaced.

Sponsored Links
$69 Chevrolet


Read more: How to Test a GM Knock Sensor | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6663194_test-gm-knock-sensor.html#ixzz22bIpwqWe

 

[Bobby78]

Yeah that would work. Might also chip your paint. But the issue might not be that the sensor isn't working. The values for a 305 might be different than a 350 as Woody stated above.

 

[HKDUP87]

Yeah that would work. Might also chip your paint. But the issue might not be that the sensor isn't working. The values for a 305 might be different than a 350 as Woody stated above.

'

Yea but what one do I need I started a new thread asking. I think I'm just going to drink today.

 

[RTT]

Robert, When my motor was swapped on my 84, all original sensors were re-used. Timing is now set at 10* and I am throwing no codes. She's running good. Maybe 04 is different than an 07??
RTT