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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
[
O.k. I'm 2c short of a buck so there's what I have new knock sensor and ESC for a 350 motor and will be replacing the bosch 02 sensor with a matching 350 Denso quality sensor.



For the TPS readings here's what my results are.

Connector disconnected meter pos.+ gray wire neg.- black wire on the plug to the ECM key on
5.0 volts
plugged in key on pos.+ blue wire neg.- black wire 1.43v increase throttle slowly even voltage increase full throttle 4.74 volts
Disconnected the battery to clear codes and took a drive on the streets and freeway.From a full stop punch the gas and no hesitation all power to the wheels with great response. Freeway driving fluctuating 55/85 total response even flow in all gears just full smooth feeling at all speeds.on the side street from a stop I hit the gas and let off with hitting the gas quickly again a few times to see if it would get too much gas or not enough but perfect response with no hesitation or jerking just power to the wheels. Feels nice with that extra HP.

At idle fully warmed up and driven in park 920 RPM'S In gear with break on 680 RPM'S but still pulling a code 43 I didn't have time to recheck the timing or put the vacuum gauge to see where I'm set but the last reading before changing the idle down the timing was set at 8-BTDC then with the vacuum gauge was between 19/20 holding steady.
Am I getting close? The truck is running good but it hasn't really been given a good hard day of driving or on the freeway with an steep grade to see how it responds with a load on the motor otherwise at idle she purrs but I must be off a little somewhere. I haven't changed the 02 sensor yet there's not enough time in a day anymore so I need to find the correct one for the new motor and the Denso brand is supposed to be a quality unit?
Robert
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I would.... for .02 thats all you get!!!!:poke:
I don't know anything about o2 sensors but I do know you have a super nice ride, you done good dude!!!:nanawrench:
Donny
 

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Sensors

I did not have much luck with Bosch O2 sensors. Ended up throwing a code, so I removed the codes with a Snap-on Scan Tool and reinstalled the sensors with no success. I don't have any experience with Denso sensors. Went back to AC Delco sensors and never saw a code. It was an expensive lesson for me. JMHO
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #4
I did not have much luck with Bosch O2 sensors. Ended up throwing a code, so I removed the codes with a Snap-on Scan Tool and reinstalled the sensors with no success. I don't have any experience with Denso sensors. Went back to AC Delco sensors and never saw a code. It was an expensive lesson for me. JMHO

ac delco COOL I JUST GOT TO FIGURE OUT THE SENSOR FOR A 350 CCC ERNGINE.:dontknow::dontknow:
 

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My motorcycles use Denso sensors. Some are wide-band and some are narrow-band. Since yours reads 0-5 volts, it's a wide-band. Never had any problems.

Jack
 

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Changing the O2 sensor may not solve the problem. Isn't code 43 "Electronic Spark Control (ESC) retard signal for too long a time, causes retard in ESC signal"

Code 45 has to do with the O2 sensor.
Code 45 "Rich exhaust indication. The engine must run 2 minutes, in closed loop and at part throttle, before this code will set.
It would seem as if the O2 sensor is working and picking up a rich exhaust condition. Might need to lean out the mixture screws?
These definitions are from the 1987 Pontiac Service Manual for a 305 chevy engine used in pontiac G bodies.
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #7
changing the o2 sensor may not solve the problem. Isn't code 43 "electronic spark control (esc) retard signal for too long a time, causes retard in esc signal"

code 45 has to do with the o2 sensor.
Code 45 "rich exhaust indication. The engine must run 2 minutes, in closed loop and at part throttle, before this code will set.
It would seem as if the o2 sensor is working and picking up a rich exhaust condition. Might need to lean out the mixture screws?
These definitions are from the 1987 pontiac service manual for a 305 chevy engine used in pontiac g bodies.

the 02 sensor i have is bosch and i here there junk so i'm getting a good one. No reason to take any chances .

To pick one out just go with the range 0-5v or do i have to find one for the 350 motor?
 

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I would go with the original equipment that was used with the computer in the car---keep them matched. Are you using the original 305 computer? If so then go with an O2 for the 305---those components share the same language --so to speak......Dan
 

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The O2 sensor does Not care what engine it's used on. Just get a Delco for your car as it was original.
It just reads air/fuel mix. :texas::beer:
 

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The faulty TPS voltage wasn't mentioned, so I am posting to say that the TPS needs to be adjusted to .48-.54 V. The High TPS may be the issue with the codes, not the O2 sensor.
 

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That's what I said. It's seeing a rich condition. Chances are good that every O2 sensor you could put there will see the same thing.
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #12
[Were on the right track now. Mike has told me how to adjust the TPS so I will hit youtube and other forums if needed to get rid of my last code. I have been given a couple of forum link that are really interesting on this issue and as you know one guy say's this and the other say's that in the forums

Sorry about the 02 sensor I just wanted to get a quality one installed. no reason to create another issue down the road.:beer:
Thanks
Robert[/I]
 

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Robert, my little experience is to match the O2 with the computer! I have the 350 change, I kept it simple.....mine runs just fine for what I have in it! I've just been busy and haven't timed mine after the smog. Not running perfect, but good enough to break the tires ( Yes....I said tires.....as in 2 tires! ) loose, and still get over 20+ mpg.
What more are you looking for?
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Robert, my little experience is to match the O2 with the computer! I have the 350 change, I kept it simple.....mine runs just fine for what I have in it! I've just been busy and haven't timed mine after the smog. Not running perfect, but good enough to break the tires ( Yes....I said tires.....as in 2 tires! ) loose, and still get over 20+ mpg.
What more are you looking for?
Nothing just adjusting the TPS to .5v to get rich condition balanced. code 43 it all I show and it should be gone tomorrow. Then I can start looking at that 20MPG!!!! After I install the headers!!!!


your home free.[/QUOTE]

Ok I used a piece of hard tubing and it turns freely but it only went down to 1.37v. Am I supposed to be loosing it counter clockwise? I almost had the shaft to the edge of the hole at 13.7 v then starting the truck it took a few cranks to start so i put it back and stopped. I didn't read all the info in one of the forums first so i didn't want to really mess it up.I started at around 1.43v i believe.:dontknow:If i need to tighten it more then i can see it going down but the other way the shaft is going to come out. I will go back to read and see if you do a little at a time or what.?
Robert
 

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You should not see more than 5V maximum. Was the 13.7V above a mistype? Ground side of your DVM should be attached to the middle wire, and the other side attached to the wire that does not show 5V.

IIRC screwing in should decrease the voltage,and screwing out should increase it. But it should only take maybe one to two full turns either way to max it out. If the screw is almost out and still showing 1.43, then the TPS is likely "Stuck", the adjusting arm is bent, or the wrong length TPS Rod was used to rebuild it.

Want to do a little investigating? First, look at the small rod that comes up underneath the accelerator pump actuator. To locate it, look at your accelerator pump actuator. You can see where at the end it pushes down on the accelerator pump. Just a little closer to the pivot point of the Accelerator Pump Actuator, you will see a small hump on the bottom of the Accelerator Pump Actuator. That hump pushes on a rod(pin) that actuates the TPS. Make sure that pin is contacting the accelerator actuator on that hump. Any space there, and the TPS or it's rod is likely "Stuck" , or the wrong length rod was used.

Now, if that is OK, then take a small punch and push the Accelerator Arm Pivit Pin in toward the carb. You can drive it until it almost touches the air horn. ( to replace, I use a wood chisel to fit between the pin and the air horn, and lever the pin back through the opposite way.) When you remove the punch, the accelerator arm should be able to swing up freely. Now the pin for the TPS should be fully exposed, and under no pressure. Check your TPS voltage now. It should be lower. You should be able to push the TPS pin down and see voltage climb toward 5v. If the voltages range from near 0 to 5v, then the TPS itself is good. If not, the TPS is bad. If it is difficult to move the pin, or it feels 'Sticky", you can pull it out and inspect it for any burrs, then lube it with Petroleum Jelly.

Next issue would be that the small adjusting actuator that is moved by the adjusting screw is bent, and not allowed full travel. The other issue might be that the TPS spring that sits under the TPS is weak or missing, or the TPS is not properly "Staked" in the housing. All of these issues require the Air Horn to be removed, and that can be a little tricky. Let's deal with that if we get there.
 

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Re-red your post again, Robert. Sounds like you were turning the screw out- try going the other way. Should decrease the voltage as you turn in I think.
 

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Robert, one other thought entered my feeble mind. The tool you are using to adjust the screw may have enough "Bite" to loosen the screw, but might not have enough to overcome the pressure of the TPS springs when trying to tighten. Try holding the throttle wide open while trying to screw in, if it is not showing any movement otherwise. This will take some of the pressure off the TPS adjuster and might make the adjustment easier.
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
You should not see more than 5V maximum. Was the 13.7V above a mistype? Ground side of your DVM should be attached to the middle wire, and the other side attached to the wire that does not show 5V.

IIRC screwing in should decrease the voltage,and screwing out should increase it. But it should only take maybe one to two full turns either way to max it out. If the screw is almost out and still showing 1.43, then the TPS is likely "Stuck", the adjusting arm is bent, or the wrong length TPS Rod was used to rebuild it.

Want to do a little investigating? First, look at the small rod that comes up underneath the accelerator pump actuator. To locate it, look at your accelerator pump actuator. You can see where at the end it pushes down on the accelerator pump. Just a little closer to the pivot point of the Accelerator Pump Actuator, you will see a small hump on the bottom of the Accelerator Pump Actuator. That hump pushes on a rod(pin) that actuates the TPS. Make sure that pin is contacting the accelerator actuator on that hump. Any space there, and the TPS or it's rod is likely "Stuck" , or the wrong length rod was used.

Now, if that is OK, then take a small punch and push the Accelerator Arm Pivit Pin in toward the carb. You can drive it until it almost touches the air horn. ( to replace, I use a wood chisel to fit between the pin and the air horn, and lever the pin back through the opposite way.) When you remove the punch, the accelerator arm should be able to swing up freely. Now the pin for the TPS should be fully exposed, and under no pressure. Check your TPS voltage now. It should be lower. You should be able to push the TPS pin down and see voltage climb toward 5v. If the voltages range from near 0 to 5v, then the TPS itself is good. If not, the TPS is bad. If it is difficult to move the pin, or it feels 'Sticky", you can pull it out and inspect it for any burrs, then lube it with Petroleum Jelly.

Next issue would be that the small adjusting actuator that is moved by the adjusting screw is bent, and not allowed full travel. The other issue might be that the TPS spring that sits under the TPS is weak or missing, or the TPS is not properly "Staked" in the housing. All of these issues require the Air Horn to be removed, and that can be a little tricky. Let's deal with that if we get there.


Sorry 1.37v and I was screwing out then stopped because I didn't think the tool I made was even going to work until I pulled it off and noticed the shaft was moving out.I will adj. it tonight. tHE VOLTAGE WAS BOUNCING BETWEEN 1.43 AND 1.37 AND I DID SCREW IT BACK IN TILL IT TOOK PRESSURE BUT DIDN'T TRY TO TIGHTEN AT ALL. I did get 5.0v from the plug to the ECM.
Thanks Mike hope There's no codes after today.:nanawrench:


I forgot to ask sense your move how's the new garage?
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #19
Robert, one other thought entered my feeble mind. The tool you are using to adjust the screw may have enough "Bite" to loosen the screw, but might not have enough to overcome the pressure of the TPS springs when trying to tighten. Try holding the throttle wide open while trying to screw in, if it is not showing any movement otherwise. This will take some of the pressure off the TPS adjuster and might make the adjustment easier.

I got it so is .50v good? or up/down on the volts whats the best or at that voltage it doesn't matter?:nanawrench::nanawrench:
 

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ZERO MPG
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Robert, one other thought entered my feeble mind. The tool you are using to adjust the screw may have enough "Bite" to loosen the screw, but might not have enough to overcome the pressure of the TPS springs when trying to tighten. Try holding the throttle wide open while trying to screw in, if it is not showing any movement otherwise. This will take some of the pressure off the TPS adjuster and might make the adjustment easier.

O.K. I got it to .50v then started the engine to see what it would do then turned it off and hooked the meter and now it reads .34v and I can't get it back up to .50v I'm sure the shaft is moving in both ways but the volts are only moving a fraction between .30/.40v and the truck is running a little ruff. I didn't touch anything else except to make sure the voltage increased when opening the throttle and it's still smooth increase but maxes out at 3.6 v:dontknow: I rechecked the timing and it didn't change. Drove the truck and at a dead stop then giving it gas it's stumbling a little like not getting or getting to much fuel but it's enough that something is wrong. I got back and the truck is idling in gear foot on the break at 650RPM'S and in park 920 Rpm's. Do i need to up the idle? if i do the voltage will increase to the new setting. I could turn the screw till it hits .50v? Now driving for about an hour lots of freeway 65/80mph and surface streets no check engine came on and I cleared it before I left. this time I pulled the code 24 and the book says disregard if it didn't light when driving and it does when the engine is off. Sounds like I'm Code free finally but not running as good as before.? my timing is between 9/10 BTDC
Robert
 
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