[HKDUP87]

Does anybody here have one of the new elect. cars? I was wondering when you plug it into your house electrical I'm sure you automatically go over your average so your teer jumps to the highest level witch now your paying the highest cost for going over your limit. So is electricity cheaper than gas after averaging the increase cost of your over all cost for the daily electricity you use? I guess you would have to get an old bill at the standard level then a new bill and see the difference in what a kilowatt cost and your daily use because you need to factor that in to what it cost to charge the car also at the higher cost. You think over all mile for mile it's cheaper than gas. Inquiry minds need to know. Don't forget you daily cost for your house is going to increase from going over the limit your given also. So if everybody buys elect. cars that means we need to burn more coal wait we need to process the coal and get it to the plant to burn it. IS ANYBODY SEEING WHATS HAPPENING HERE!!!!!!!!!! NOT LOOKING SO CLEAN ANYMORE GOING TO NEED MORE POWER PLANTS!!!!!! MORE COAL EVER SEEN A MOUNTAIN JUST VANISH !!!! MORE DAMS SORRY SALMON YOUR GOING EXTINCT. WHERES THE SUPER CONDUCTOR OH THERE'S NO MONEY IN A PERFECT SYSTEM.
SEE YOU ON MARS.
___________

 

[steelybill]

Good question there. no free lunch, as they say...
...some electrical energy suppliers were discussing the need to increase wattage capacity in a particular subdivision, if a bunch of those folks bought electric cars.
The electric grid isn't in good shape anyway.....

 

[HKDUP87]

Good question there. no free lunch, as they say...
...some electrical energy suppliers were discussing the need to increase wattage capacity in a particular subdivision, if a bunch of those folks bought electric cars.
The electric grid isn't in good shape anyway.....

It's another disaster waiting to happen. They need to think first but everybody is chasing the mighty $$$$$$$$$ and worry about the rest later. You can only charge your car on the odd even day system? It would up my business I sell to the power plants nation wide. More transformers on the poles or underground.

 

[fauxrs]

So is electricity cheaper than gas after averaging the increase cost of your over all cost for the daily electricity you use?

Under some circumstances the answer is an unequivocal yes.....but....

As posted in another thread - interesting article here.

IMO the electric car is actually going to be a short term solution, I dont think its all that viable and if it received massive implementation our grid would likely collapse.

buried in that article was a partial conclusion...

This is assuming I put 20 miles of electricity into the car per day, or 600 miles a month (216 KwH). So $32 divided by 600 miles gets me 5.3 cents per mile

Thats pretty damned good if my math is right, compared to my car that gets say 23 mpg, that 1 gallon costs be say on average $4 or 17 cents per mile, at 5.3 cents per mile and $4/gallon gas thats roughly equal to 75mpg.

all you have to do though is look at the electrical load he indicated in the article and then multiply that by millions of people if that car saw widespread use and you can see the disaster looming.

No the IC engine will be around for awhile yet.

 

[HKDUP87]

Under some circumstances the answer is an unequivocal yes.....but....

As posted in another thread - interesting article here.

IMO the electric car is actually going to be a short term solution, I dont think its all that viable and if it received massive implementation our grid would likely collapse.

buried in that article was a partial conclusion...



Thats pretty damned good if my math is right, compared to my car that gets say 23 mpg, that 1 gallon costs be say on average $4 or 17 cents per mile, at 5.3 cents per mile and $4/gallon gas thats roughly equal to 75mpg.

all you have to do though is look at the electrical load he indicated in the article and then multiply that by millions of people if that car saw widespread use and you can see the disaster looming.

No the IC engine will be around for awhile yet.

You need to factor in your increase in the cost of your daily home use if your teer rises too the highest level and will stay there and never go down. I would say double that at the min. but it's still lower than gas. Unless you get a kick back for going electric?


Started to read it but need to go to work and will finish it later to see the bottom line. Sure is detailed so it should be correct.
Thanks
Robert

 

[fauxrs]

You need to factor in your increase in the cost of your daily home use if your teer rises too the highest level and will stay there and never go down. I would say double that at the min. but it's still lower than gas. Unless you get a kick back for going electric?

The article i posted does take that into account, there is a "but" though, his projections assume 20 miles/day. While that may work for some, the average american drives 33.4 miles/day.

At 20 miles/day the car only requires a half charge, allowing the driver to charge at non peak hours, drive closer to 40 miles or whatever distance requires a full charge and it becomes harder to avoid peak hours. Hit those peak hours and yes the theoretical mpg will go down as the cents/mile goes up.

SDG&E and probably your energy provider HKDUP87, is calling for a FLEX alert today because of the heat and thus increased usage on the grid, if we added to that mix a **** ton of electric cars needing to be charged, well all I gotta say is - watch out.

 

[oldtinsmith]

Shouldn't the replacement cost of the lithium battery pack be included in this cost analysis (replace after 7 years !?). I'd think you would use most of your cars gas savings buying new battery packs!

 

[fauxrs]

Shouldn't the replacement cost of the lithium battery pack be included in this cost analysis (replace after 7 years !?). I'd think you would use most of your cars gas savings buying new battery packs!

Cost of maintenance isnt factored into IC cars fuel mileage. Cost of ownership (includes maintenance costs) can be compared between the two of course, but you would have to factor in the same for IC cars for the comparison to be valid.

But lets go ahead and make that comparison for the volt over 5 years(estimated) its $45,842 its estimated because no-one has owned one for 5 years, fuel cost of $4612, what kills the volt is its depreciation cost, not its maintenance costs. Once the price of this car comes down, if it ever does, or its resale value goes up, which it likely wont, this might change.

finding a car to compare it against that isnt a hybrid is hard so I just took the first car off the same sites list - it has a slightly lower MSRP than the volt (which is the Volts biggest problem)

The Audi A3 TDI has a five year ownership cost of $37,140, fuel cost of $8,423

The audi is a lousy comparison because it really isnt in comparison to teh Volt, and I would much rather have the Audi, but its clear that at least for the Volt, ownership costs are high, as would be expected for a vehicle representing a paradigm shift.

If on the other hand you look at the Prius, which has been around long enough - its cost of ownership is quite low at $29,097.

The biggest fraud about these cars is that, if you are a big green follower (which I am not) is that they, like all cars, have a massive carbon footprint in their assembly, rare earth materials from china, shipped to canada, then to mexico, then to the assembly plant where the car is built and then loaded on trains and ships to get them to teh selling point....far better to own old cars whose green footprint has been already absorbed.

 

[oldtinsmith]

....far better to own old cars whose green footprint has been already absorbed.

Yup!!! That's why our newest vehicle is a 1998 Blazer!

Doug

 

[HKDUP87]

Cost of maintenance isnt factored into IC cars fuel mileage. Cost of ownership (includes maintenance costs) can be compared between the two of course, but you would have to factor in the same for IC cars for the comparison to be valid.

But lets go ahead and make that comparison for the volt over 5 years(estimated) its $45,842 its estimated because no-one has owned one for 5 years, fuel cost of $4612, what kills the volt is its depreciation cost, not its maintenance costs. Once the price of this car comes down, if it ever does, or its resale value goes up, which it likely wont, this might change.

finding a car to compare it against that isnt a hybrid is hard so I just took the first car off the same sites list - it has a slightly lower MSRP than the volt (which is the Volts biggest problem)

The Audi A3 TDI has a five year ownership cost of $37,140, fuel cost of $8,423

The audi is a lousy comparison because it really isnt in comparison to teh Volt, and I would much rather have the Audi, but its clear that at least for the Volt, ownership costs are high, as would be expected for a vehicle representing a paradigm shift.

If on the other hand you look at the Prius, which has been around long enough - its cost of ownership is quite low at $29,097.

The biggest fraud about these cars is that, if you are a big green follower (which I am not) is that they, like all cars, have a massive carbon footprint in their assembly, rare earth materials from china, shipped to canada, then to mexico, then to the assembly plant where the car is built and then loaded on trains and ships to get them to teh selling point....far better to own old cars whose green footprint has been already absorbed.

Well said!!!!!!!:beer:

Bottom line is it better for the environment? If we need more coal burning power plants and there is no such thing as a clean burning plant that exists in this world you need to mine it , transport it , burn it, hide the waist underground for someone else to find it? More dams and towers to transport the the electricity to the new sub stations that need to be replaced or more power. and on and on and on. May be better to wait for the super conductor I'm sure their holding back.

 

[steelybill]

I'm still waiting for cold fusion !:smileyb:

 

[HKDUP87]

I'm still waiting for cold fusion !:smileyb:

 

[mrblanche]

There are many problems with "alternative power" vehicles.

A better car to compare to the Volt would be the Jetta TDI. Much closer in size, etc.

When you compare the carbon footprint for manufacturing of hybrid vehicles, don't forget to factor in replacement of the entire battery pack at least one in its life of 150,000 miles, AND the disposal of both battery packs.

HKDUP87, your reference to "TEER" and other things indicates your California location. Most of what you're dealing with is peculiar to California.

 

[HKDUP87]

There are many problems with "alternative power" vehicles.

A better car to compare to the Volt would be the Jetta TDI. Much closer in size, etc.

When you compare the carbon footprint for manufacturing of hybrid vehicles, don't forget to factor in replacement of the entire battery pack at least one in its life of 150,000 miles, AND the disposal of both battery packs.

HKDUP87, your reference to "TEER" and other things indicates your California location. Most of what you're dealing with is peculiar to California.

How well I know $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Bryan59EC]

The electricity to keep these things moving might be cheaper, but then you are limited to a not so large area of use if you have one.

Oh, hell, my battery won't get me there and back!!!

Battery replacement----could be extremely pricey in a couple of years.
2-3k in our electric forklifts and they only last so long----then you have the environmental fees on top of that.

Now, some EPA guys are gonna end up saying that it will cost about 10k to properly dispose of the spent batteries---then you gotta buy new ones, and in a few years they will probably cost upward of 7k, and that will probably be with Government subsidies trying to justify the use of electric cars.

That silly little Volt that cost a purchaser 47k to buy outright does not include all of the subsidies built into it.
This car is costing upwards of 80k to build-----and DAMMIT, I do not wish to help you pay for your car, and that is exactly what I am doing if you buy one.

Government should not subsidize these things----I am sick of helping to buy your new cars, houses and education.
I have to pay for all of mine with no help from the government-------everyone else should as well.