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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Tonight I'll post a 200-R4 parts list. :beer:
Let me help you out Mike since I just bugged you for this! :nanawrench:

This is what Mike has told me before on getting a 200R4 (so correct me if you have updated this).

This set-up will handle 450-500HP.

1) Start with a quality rebuild kit that's got Borg Warner or Raybestos clutches and NEW steel discs. I'm running B.W. clutches in mine.


2) Change ALL the bushings. Many shops or builders only replace bushings that look worn, or just change critical bushings. For HP go with all of them. Be sure to ask for a Teflon pump bushing and a Teflon or bronze output bushing. Stock they are babbit and not as tough.


3) Convert the stock 7 vane pump to 10 vane. Have the hardened pump rings installed. Drill the pump drain back hole behind the front seal to 1/4 inch, and the mating hole in the other half of the pump 1/4 inch.


4) Get a new stator shaft with heat treated splines.


5) Use a Kevlar or wide intermediate band(Kevlar preferred). Be sure to resurface the direct drum that the band rides on.


6) New sun gear shell with heat treated splines.


7) New overdrive and low roller clutches.


8)
Largest intermediate servo.

9) Run a Transgo(200-4R-HD2)or Superior(K200-4R-HP) shift kit. I'm running Superior and love it. It's also a much better priced kit. Either kit does the necessary TV modifications and boost valve upgrade for better pressure, and much more.


10) Make sure front and rear end play is minimized. This is done with selective thrust washers at the output shaft and pump.


11) To protect your investment get a HD trans cooler. I like Tru-Cool brand. They are excellent quality and reasonable in price.



One last thing. You can go with racing clutches and Kolene steels but I don't think it's necessary for street applications. If you've got money to burn put them in!
 

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TrannyMike,

Thanks for this list! It or a concise synopsis of it, should be a sticky!

I'm currently in the midst of rebuilding my $150 200-4R and I spent the hours doing to the research for not only what to buy, but where to get a great price on it. I am happy to see that the majority of what I've purchased (and waiting for delivery on) are precisely what is on these lists with only a few exceptions. My build/mindset is for a modestly upgraded 200-4R that will not see high RPM or HP. The most abuse it will see would be in the hauling category and even that is not frequent and rarely severe.

Firstly, this is where I ordered the majority of parts:
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=200-4R

They seem to have the lowest prices I could find on a majority of pieces. Take the dust cover, for instance. Art Carr has if for over $30, Bulkparts has it for a little more than $5

I started with a basic overhaul kit that only includes seals. I did NOT order steels or friction discs. When I got my tranny disassembled I could still read printed part numbers on the friction discs' surfaces. In all honesty the steels and frictions look as though they are extremely low mileage and possibly a recent rebuild. I will post pictures in my own thread for consensus, before I start re-assembly. ALSO, upon reading about the Raybestos "Z-Pack" for HD and towing I may change my mind, if it's available for the 2004R. I like the thought of a more discs upgrade.

I found the TransGo 200-4R-HD2 kit WITH upgraded billet intermediate servo for $180 on eBay. That is close to a $30-40 savings!!! :secret:

Alto Red Eagle power band. :smileyb:
Torrington bearings.
Shaft bearings kit.
Hardened stator shaft.
Most of the other things on Mattendres' list, too.

I DIDN'T get the spacer kit, which I now will
I DID get the 13 vane pump w/ SPX HD hard rings. Is it that much of an issue, TrannyMike?

I will start my cleaning of the valve body and one-piece case today. As well as various internal bits while I await delivery.
 

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TrannyMike,

Thanks for this list! It or a concise synopsis of it, should be a sticky!

I'm currently in the midst of rebuilding my $150 200-4R and I spent the hours doing to the research for not only what to buy, but where to get a great price on it. I am happy to see that the majority of what I've purchased (and waiting for delivery on) are precisely what is on these lists with only a few exceptions. My build/mindset is for a modestly upgraded 200-4R that will not see high RPM or HP. The most abuse it will see would be in the hauling category and even that is not frequent and rarely severe.

Firstly, this is where I ordered the majority of parts:
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=200-4R

They seem to have the lowest prices I could find on a majority of pieces. Take the dust cover, for instance. Art Carr has if for over $30, Bulkparts has it for a little more than $5

I started with a basic overhaul kit that only includes seals. I did NOT order steels or friction discs. When I got my tranny disassembled I could still read printed part numbers on the friction discs' surfaces. In all honesty the steels and frictions look as though they are extremely low mileage and possibly a recent rebuild. I will post pictures in my own thread for consensus, before I start re-assembly. ALSO, upon reading about the Raybestos "Z-Pack" for HD and towing I may change my mind, if it's available for the 2004R. I like the thought of a more discs upgrade.

I found the TransGo 200-4R-HD2 kit WITH upgraded billet intermediate servo for $180 on eBay. That is close to a $30-40 savings!!! :secret:

Alto Red Eagle power band. :smileyb:
Torrington bearings.
Shaft bearings kit.
Hardened stator shaft.
Most of the other things on Mattendres' list, too.

I DIDN'T get the spacer kit, which I now will
I DID get the 13 vane pump w/ SPX HD hard rings. Is it that much of an issue, TrannyMike?

I will start my cleaning of the valve body and one-piece case today. As well as various internal bits while I await delivery.

I was giving TrannyMike time to respond since you directed your question at him about the 13 vane pump. I'm not sure how Mike feels about it, but IMO, the 13 vane pump IS that much of an issue. The 13 vane rotors are weaker of course because there is less meat on the rotor, not to mention the added stress of 13 vanes instead of only 10. 10 vane is the magic # of vanes for best results and all things considered. If you've already built the transmission with the 13 vane, then I'd say it's not that much of an issue and I'd leave it. If not though, I'd change and go with the 10 vane with this build.
 

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hotrodpc,

Thanks for the reply. You confirmed what I was beginning to feel in my gut. The good news is that I haven't even received my shipment of the my parts yet, so the tranny is still on the surgical table awaiting transplants. Further digging into its guts has shown me this:



and this:



...so I need to place an order for discs and steels anyway. My first views of the 4th clutch and direct clutch were promising but further digging belays that.

Please follow my progress here:

http://www.elcaminocentral.com/showthread.php?t=47008
 

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Yep, that drum got a little hot at one time of a few.

Good deal. Caught it before you built it. Just one of the few things, more isn't always better. Some builders will still use the 13 vanes, but I prefer to go with the 10 vane, then shifts kits that include boost valves where you can direct where the added pressure is needed and put to good use. No need in putting in parts under more strain and stress that don't need to be, especially when there is no benefit in doing so. :nanawrench:
 

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TrannyMike
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I know this is a few days ago, but here's the deal on 10 vs 13 vanes. 10 vane is preferred because it produces more volume of oil. For each vane in the pump, it uses space that would be where fluid could be. You actually get diminishing volume going over 10 vanes. The factory added vanes because of harmonics in the pump, which really isn't even noticeable. 7 vanes=too few, 13=too many, 10=just right! :beer:
 

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Yep, that makes sense too Mike. I had been taught, the more vanes you have, then the less space you have between the vanes in the rotor making the rotor weaker, and the added stress from 3 more vanes would allow the pump rotor to break then of course you have no pressure at all and dead in the water. Just glad Mj got it corrected before his build and installed it. Also keep in mind guys, there are still many out there that will tell you 13 is better. It's just not true, so don't fall for it. Go 10 and nothing but.
 

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Also keep in mind guys, there are still many out there that will tell you 13 is better. It's just not true, so don't fall for it. Go 10 and nothing but.
I did a ton of research on sites similar to ours like the TurboBuick GN site, MonteCarloSS, MalibuRacing etc. Most of the writes up are for high HP builds but a common good-to-do mod is always improve the oil pump. And, yes, some sites mention the 13 vane as the way to go, which is how I fell into that trap. No worries, all good now!
 

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For a sub 300 HP engine, are these expensive parts and kits still neccesary? I am on a shoestring budget...
 

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Some things really are excellent ideas to do while the tranny is out of the vehicle - like the 10 vane oil pump, hardened pump rings, the hardened pump stator, all of which are right behind the converter and easy to get at. The next big thing would be replacing the band with Kevlar or an oversized band as this greatly improves 2-4 holding strength.

I'm not sure how necessary the modified servo is (which is a big ticket item) or the sunshell is for low HP usage. TrannyMike would have to chime in on that.

The rest depends on the quality of tranny you pick up, which is a good reason to inspect the look/smell of oil and to open the pan to see what lies in there. This is of course a crap shoot seeing as how you have no idea really about the quality of the innards. I could have installed the 200-4R I'm currently building and gotten a few miles out of it, but I would always be wondering what/when something was going to go.

For myself, I decided to do a full rebuild. I found a complete set each of Raybestos steel plates & frictions on eBay for $40 per set ($80 total). I also found a deal on the pricey TransGo revised shift kit which includes the modified servo for $30 less than most places have it... again eBay. It pays to shop around but most everything else I picked up from BulkPart.com. They have a very wide selection and excellent prices and customer service. If you find the disc kits elsewhere, you should order the basic overhaul kit for all your seals/gaskets and then pick the band you want. You can even get the drain pan bolt through them, a manual and assembly lube (highly recommended) all in one place, and if your order is high enough with free shipping. This is the 200-4R specific page:

http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=2&Category_Code=200-4R

Honestly, my philosophy is to build it right, do it once and it is cheaper in the long run. Personally I do not want to wrestle with these pigs any more than I absolutely have to. But as I say... your mileage may vary. Talk to TrannyMike. I hope this helps.
 

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Red Regal,

Those are some amazing prices!!! Any comment on vouching for quality?
 

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Yep, that's the kit I have in my ride. You can buy it for less from other vendors. I buy from PDQ trans parts, but they aren't national though. Transtar Industries may have it for less and is the largest trans parts supplier in the country. :beer:
 

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Yep, that's the kit I have in my ride. You can buy it for less from other vendors. I buy from PDQ trans parts, but they aren't national though. Transtar Industries may have it for less and is the largest trans parts supplier in the country. :beer:
Thanks Mike! :nanawrench:
 

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Hey Guys NOT to step on TrannyMike's TOES here but I have been doing alot of research and I would like to Reference CKPerformance build specs for the 200-4r 500hp/500ft. Lbs Trq. you really need to install a billet input drum as according to them and what I have read in several other places from guys renowned for building 200's above 400hp/trq these become ticking time bombs and for guys like myself who want to put this trans in heavier 4th gen cars it is a must above 300hp/300trq. or even if you have a light weight car but your running a Big block you need to step it up to handle the low end torque. I bought CKPerformances Build manual and went through it cover to cover with my buddy who builds transmissions for a living and I am a true believer anyone can build one of these transmission but not everyone can make them live because the tolerances have to be perfect the shift points have to be perfect because if memory serves me correct the shift timing for the 2-3 shift has to be **** near perfect or your going to shear the input shaft off with the factory piece. I would definitely default to a guy that has built 100's or even 1000's of them and is the guy designing and building the custom parts than a guy that has built maybe half a dozen or so of these transmissions. Like I said no disrespect to TrannyMike I am sure he does great work I just perfer doing things once and not having to worry about it in the future.
 

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Just tagging this thread so I can follow the conversation, in the process of having 3.42 gears put in my '75 el Camino, just picked up a nice used '87 GN BRF 200-R4 trans and going to rebuild it. I did one other 200-R4 rebuild successfully, so feel I can do another.

Not going to be pushing anywhere near the HP you guys are talking about, the original 400SB in my '75 is rated at 175hp, but has headers so might be 180HP...... :)
 
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