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Aftermarket EFI

7.3K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  darbysan  
#1 ·
Is anyone using an aftermarket EFI system on your El Camino? I have been eyeing the Edelbrock E-street system and the Holley Terminator system. Just wondered what was being used with the most success.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I'm running a Holley port injection EFI, (old COmmander 950 system)and have helped with a couple of FAST installations. Both take a lot of setup and tuning (as will most of the adaptable systems that control fuel and timing, trans etc)

I've only known one guy that used the Edelbrock EFI system and he wasn't happy with it,, but he is a 'bolt it on and go' kind of guy and didn't want to take the time to tune and optimize it for his combination.

A new kid on the block is gaining momentum,, FiTech is making a VERY affordable EFI replacment for the carb (no spark control), just wideband feedback 'learning' fuel curve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK-qLlGotUU&feature=youtu.be


The same sort of 'learning " controller as Holley Sniper system and somewhat less sophisticated than the MSD atomic EFI

But WAY less $ than a full blown EFI system like the Holley HP or terminator_4bbl tbi or port injection kits, FAST or MSD with the addon trans controler
 
#3 · (Edited)
Fitech EFI has my vote. I have it on my car but it's not running yet so I can't give you a complete review. For the money it's hard to beat. Their entry level system is $795 (up to 400 horsepower 600 HP system is $995), but that doesn't include the fuel pump. Their Fuel Command center uses the stock low pressure pump to feed a high pressure pump inside a reservoir. Pretty neat deal. Makes the plumbing pretty easy. I don't think the website lists the $795 system yet, but it's shown in the videos in the media section. Even their systems that do everything are a good deal compared to the bigger names. I have the EFI-8. www.fitechefi.com
 
#4 ·
I have the MSD Atomic EFI on my 86. It is the only aftermarket EFI that is SMOG legal in CA at this time. I'm very pleased with the MSD's performance, but as said above, it is very pricey in compared to FiTech.

Being my 1973 Nova doesn't need to be "SMOGGED" anymore, I was just going to replace the 2 bbl carb with a 4 bbl and be done with it. Now, I am leaning heavily toward the FiTech system. The $995 system is less than half the cost of the MSD unit, yet still provides "timing control" which I've found is very important idle and just off idle stability.

I really like the "Fuel Command Center" as the answer to the fuel system problem. I used a in-tank pump, regulator and return for the MSD system in order to provide a stable supply of fuel to the throttle body. All told, with the in-tank pump, CA legal hose ($5.04 per foot), AN fittings, regulator, tubing, etc. I'm into the fuel system over $1k. The FiTech command center is only $395.

Currently, I'm neck deep in a complete interior overhaul for Willits, including dashboard, gauge panel and cruise control replacement and a complete clean up of the PO's mess that he made of the wiring behind the dash. This will give me time to read comments and reviews of their experience with FiTech to help me make a final decision.
 
#30 ·
I came across this one the other day while researching some issues on my '99 Vortec L31. It seems like they have a system where you can retro-fit to an SBC, as well as retro-fit the LS computer management stuff to an SBC.

https://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/24xSBC.aspx

Your thoughts?
I studied this as an option for my Elky. I already had TPI, and the motor was a Crate Vortec, so I already had the front sensor and timing cover. The plan was to change to a "411" ECM, which would use the Vortec style distributor. You can also upgrade to the Coil Over package , but may have to change the reluctor ring. You also need a method of getting a high speed VSS count ( 24000 ppm),A different TCC Lockup kit, bigger injectors, different MAF, 411 ECM and wiring harness, and something like HP tuners.

Total cost to me would have easily been over $1K ( on top of the $2K I had already invested), and what I would have achieved would have been Sequential FI ( instead of Batch). Bottom line might have been 1 mpg better mileage. Just couldn't justify the cost, although it would have been a fun project.

For more info, check out this thread:
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/383323-tpi-obdii-thoughts-opinions.html
 
#11 ·
I worry when I see prices that low.
I'm reminded of when I upgraded to a 80386 Dell computer I bought,, cost us $800 to upgrade the hard drive to a 40MEG hard drive, and that had to be partitioned because the OS couldn't handle more than xxx MEGS (16meg I think). Now I just bought a 64GIG USB flash drive about the size of my thumbnail for $28

As with anything ,, industry spends millions to develop a product, and then someone takes it apart and says,, "Hey I can build this for 49¢, sell it for $700 and make a fortune"
It's important to realize the lower end of this is basically just a electronic carb,, with feedback of wideband O2 , TPS and a vacuum signal. Compare that to a carb that really only knows vacuum signal that is varied by throttle blade opening. It doesn't take 'much' to be smarter than a carb.

BUT,, proven on the race track and the dyno, (be it port or throttle body) for WOT all out max effort the carb will outpower EFI. BUT, throw streetability and efficiency into the mix and nothing compares to a full blown 'on the fly' adjustments of a full electronic engine management system.

My concern in the base FiTech is no knock sensor, no timing, no intake air temp adjustment, no cold start compensation / no engine temp adjustment,, just on the fly adjustments to the fuel map based on WB-O2. YET, thats a HECK of a lot better than just a simple carb... for the street bound vehicle. I'm really anxious to hear feedback from Fitech end users that have a couple thousand miles on these systems. I have just about 6000 miles on my Holley Commander 950 MPFI and am GLAD they made a upgrade to the ECM. A great system for the day, but it lacked LOT of functions the new terminator and dominator ECM now has.

IMO Holley is still top dawg in this.... I mean who has been doing fuel management longer????
 
#8 ·
They've been doing OEM stuff for 16 years if I remember right. Their aftermarket stuff has been in the works for 2 years and they started production around March of last year. Their answer to why their stuff is so much less is, why are the other guys so expensive? Their thinking is its just some injectors and other parts. There's no reason for stuff to cost so much, especially since many of the parts are standard factory OEM parts being repurposed.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I have a good friend who just put the FiTech 1200hp system on his twin turbo Malibu, so far he's loving it. He said throttle response is ridiculously good. He's using a MagnaFuel pump to supply it. Car picked up 3 tenths on low boost (7-8psi) in the 1/4 mile on 93 octane and meth injection.

The only difference between the 600hp and the 1200hp is the number of injectors, 4 or 8. Throttle body flows 850cfm naturally aspirated, much more with boost of course.

And it does do spark control.
 
#12 ·
Marv D,

The Fitech does do mapped timing control (including NOS retard on the HP series), does do cold start comp and will do "on the fly" fuel control to achieve your target air fuel ratio based off the O2 sensor. A knock sensor would be nice, but carbs don't have those either. Coolant temp sensor is included. It also has a built in air temp sensor.

Details of the System.
http://fitechefi.com/virtualoffice_files/30001.30002%20Instructionsm%2012.9.15.pdf

Here's what the hand held controller allows.
http://fitechefi.com/virtualoffice_files/HandheldcontrollerfeatureDefinitions.pdf
 
#13 ·
Most of the aftermarket stuff doesn't have knock sensors. It's optional on the more expensive stuff (not the Fitech stuff). The $795 kit will still have the O2 sensor and the temp sensor, which are the only sensors on any of the Fitech kits. The timing control is optional to hook up on the other Fitech kits. You can lock the distributor advance out and use the EFI to control the advance, or you can just use the distributor like we've been doing forever before these fancy computer things. Your choice. I intend on using it because eventually when funds become available I plan on putting some boost on it. If not for that I would just use the distributor as always. You should never rely on the computer to keep the car out of knock. If it senses it it's already in preignition. Also knock sensors have issues with large cammed engines and solid lifters. They can sense the valve train noise as knock and the sporadic idle of a big cam can do the same thing. I've read that you can tune the sensors to avoid that if you know what you're doing.
 
#15 ·
UBER,, I should have been clear,, the base entry kit (the $700 kit) was what I was referring to lacking in feedback/input. But maybe there is more hidden in the TB than appears, or is indicated in the literature I've found. I'm sure your buddys system has boost timing control, MAP and RPM modifiers to the fuel map just as do the upper end Holley, FAST, MSD and others. Sorry I should have been clear that the base system was my reference to little more than a very sophisticated electronic carb (that the 80's GM electronic Q-jet 'wanted' to be). And I don't mean that as a slam,, in fact quite the opposite. I think once we get feedback from guys with many thousands (or many 10's of thousands) of realistic street miles, FiTech will grow exponentially if they keep up with customer demand and upgrades to keep everyone happy.
 
#16 · (Edited)
Hey Marv, it's all good. From what I've seen and read, the FiTech looks very good. I don't think they offer that base system anymore, looks like they all have the updated software/sensors, only difference being power adders in the HP series.

I can tell you this, if FiTech had a 1200cfm throttle body available, it would be ordered for UBER.
 
#20 ·
HOF,, I can surely admit when something needs correcting.

Here's a real world testing of carb vs EFI and power wise the EFI did edge out the oldschool carb in power. I stand corrected. These systems have came a long ways. But the n/a max effort NMCA guys are still leaning towards carbs. Gotta be something there ya think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI
 
#21 ·
HOF,, I can surely admit when something needs correcting.

Here's a real world testing of carb vs EFI and power wise the EFI did edge out the oldschool carb in power. I stand corrected. These systems have came a long ways. But the n/a max effort NMCA guys are still leaning towards carbs. Gotta be something there ya think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sQJPZYSoUI
EFI, especially these self tune kits have really come quite along way, My friend Jeff tested the Fitech system on his '65 camino quite awhile ago and liked it lot. We just did a cam swap on his camino about a month ago and the Fitech hated it, to be fair Jeff will tell you he has fiddled with that system so much that he cant even get it back to base settings.

I would one day love to move to a fuel injection system but the cost (even the FiTech stuff) is still too high for me. Yes you can get the base Fitech stuff for high end carb prices but that price doesn't include getting the fuel to the injectors. I don't like those remote systems that essentially stick a fuel tank in the engine compartment so any system I did would have an in tank pump and a proper return line.

Steve Brule from the video did the exact same tweaking of my carb when he dynoed my big block earlier this year so if he couldn't get the carb to hit the efi HP rating, then there is definitely something to it.
 
#23 ·
There is a base cam adjustment setting that probably needs a reset. It should be 1 thru 4, 4 being the radical cam setting.

"Cam Mild-Wild – 1-4 - While not everybody
knows the exact specifications of their camshaft,
you usually have a pretty good idea of whether
your cam is a bone stock , (selection #1 ) or a full on
race cam (selection #4) or somewhere in between.
The Go EFI system is a very powerful
self-learning tool, so the exact information isn’t
necessarily required. A mild performance cam
would be considered a #2, while a street strip cam
would be a #3. Select the best for your engine, if
you’re not sure, pick # 2!"
 
#26 ·
Thanks all for the input. I have reviewed FiTech's website thoroughly and am not overly impressed. I don't like the "dumbing down" of the cam selection, and I don't like that they do not offer an in-tank fuel system like the big name suppliers do. When you consider finding a suitable fuel system, the cost is certainly not 1/2 of what Holley, Edelbrock, or FAST offer.

I think the underhood sump system is interesting, something Edelbrock also offers. Edelbrock's sump unit looks trick.

In the end, the lack of specifics from FiTech have not made me a believer in their product, but of course there will be much more feedback as it gets used on the streets.
 
#27 ·
The "dumbing down" if the cam selection is just a starting point. The internal software will make adjustments as part of the learn in. My friend started out with his on 3 and the FiTech software moved it to 2 because his idle vacuum level was high enough to do so.


I would suggest reading the manuals I referenced a few post ago, a lot of information in them.
 
#28 ·
Here goes a really dumb question: What difference, if any, would I notice if I replaced my carb with one of these EFI systems. I'm talking about a stock 305 engine in an 83 el camino! Other than swapping out the entire engine, what mods would I have to make on the existing engine? or...would it be a waste of money?
 
#29 ·
Here goes a really dumb question: What difference, if any, would I notice if I replaced my carb with one of these EFI systems.
Just for reference, I replaced a very good running CCC Carb on my 305 with a TPI system off a Camaro. Total cost to me was about $2000 by the time it was done. Bottom line: It might start a little easier- not a lot. Gas mileage is about the same- maybe 1 mpg better. Cool factor is up! Would I do it again? Not unless I was going to a 5.3 or other LSx engine. For about the same cost I would have had a more reliable engine, More HP, better mileage, etc. There just wasn't as much info about the LS swap when I did mine.

If I was going to keep my stock 305, and I was having carb issues, I would look at buying a rebuilt carb from Mountain Man Carbs. A good running CCC carb is about as close as you can get to FI with a carb. Uses most of the same sensors as FI.
 
#33 ·
Mike....Thanks for the feedback...it's about what I expected....I had my carb rebuilt about 4 years ago and the car runs great...no problems...I was just thinking maybe the EFI would give me more throttle response to an otherwise low horsepower engine. I guess I will wait until the motor craps out....thanks....Bill
 
#34 ·
I was just thinking maybe the EFI would give me more throttle response to an otherwise low horsepower engine.
If you want more throttle response,and you haven't done it yet, consider changing the rear gears. It will feel like you just installed a new engine.

With a 3 spd trans, stay at 3.42 or below. If you plan on changing to an OD auto, you could go up to 3.73, but I don't recommend it. I had the 3.42 with a TH350c, and it ran fine. Hwy RPM's about 2900 at 70. Went to the 3.73 and OD, and now run about 2500 at 70. Difference in performance off the line is hard to differentiate between the two without a stopwatch.

You can pick up a used Monte Carlo SS rear for less than a new carb, and it is a direct bolt in. Easiest way to do the swap.